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john
Forum Moderator

Victoria


3100 Posts

Posted - 28 Jun 2011 :  09:24:58 AM  Show Profile Send john a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Some of you will remember the attempts we made to get CB350 honda racers to work together to build racer numbers.
From what I saw people argued from the point of view of self interest and could not agree to some sort of stock bike that could be easily built and raced against others.

I ask again, can you achieve something the Classic 350 / 500 and sidecar blokes did, work together to build competitor numbers. Can you create a sub class within Post Classic 350 that has heaps of 350 hondas racing to some sort of formlea that works .
 

 
John Daley Sidecar #68 Chairman Historic Management Committee Victoria
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter."

 
Edited by - john on 27 Sep 2011 9:57:34 PM

john
Forum Moderator

Victoria


3100 Posts

Posted - 27 Sep 2011 :  9:59:24 PM  Show Profile Send john a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
158 lurkers and not a single word of encouragement.
May the motorcycle gods help you
 

 
John Daley Sidecar #68 Chairman Historic Management Committee Victoria
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter."
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conker
Really - acotrel - Now banned

Victoria


361 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2011 :  04:29:15 AM  Show Profile Send conker a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
One thing we don't seem to do, which is common in the car racing world, is set up special interest groups. I cannot imagine why any logbooked CB350 would be ineligible to race in an event devised especially for them ? Surely there must be one of the guys who is prepared to set up a simple web site, and maintain an email list ? Then you might have some hope of getting a full grid of CB350s in a race at your meetings? I suggest however that if you mix two strokes or superbikes up with them, you'll kill the class before it can ever get up !
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john
Forum Moderator

Victoria


3100 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2011 :  07:33:02 AM  Show Profile Send john a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Conker, we have tried tat. There is little interest with the CB350 blokes
 

 
John Daley Sidecar #68 Chairman Historic Management Committee Victoria
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter."
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john feakes
Advanced Member

Victoria


790 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2011 :  09:29:42 AM  Show Profile Send john feakes a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
I find it rather depressing that there is so little enthusiasm shown by so many.
There is more happening in the local flat earth society.
What does it take to get people motivated?
 

 
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE

A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple.
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Jerry
Level 2 Member

South Australia


68 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2011 :  5:37:17 PM  Show Profile Send Jerry a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
It may not be a CB350 twin but at the moment I am building a P5 air cooled 4 valve 350 4 cylinder. Lots of work but lots of fun. All the best Jerry
 

 
Jerry
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john
Forum Moderator

Victoria


3100 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2011 :  7:08:52 PM  Show Profile Send john a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
nice
 

 
John Daley Sidecar #68 Chairman Historic Management Committee Victoria
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter."
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GD66
Senior Member

Western Australia


390 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2011 :  8:20:35 PM  Show Profile Send GD66 a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
SLOW LEARNER AWARD JOHN !!

As I've patiently explained to you on numerous occasions, there are very few "barn-find" CB350s available any more. Those that are already racing are as modified as possible, to do what we can to breach the abyss in performance between them and the TR3s we are forced to race against, so logically the pilots would be reluctant to tune them down just to accomodate some ethereal whim of yours.
Won't be happening.
And it's also a bit rich to hear John Feakes asking, "What does it take to get people motivated ?" when we have been waiting at least four years for the non-appearance of his alleged CB125...
You blokes are kidding...

 
Edited by - GD66 on 29 Sep 2011 8:22:10 PM
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john
Forum Moderator

Victoria


3100 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2011 :  8:57:40 PM  Show Profile Send john a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
GD66.
Not a slow learner.
There has been no call for people to detune the existing bikes.
There are many barn finds sitting in sheds that could race if people set or adopted that rules from the uSA.
Just as the side cars managed to expand their numbers with a range of options, I believe it is possible for CB350 riders to encourage new comers to get stock 350's and race against stock 350's whilst the hot ones take of at the front.
 

 
John Daley Sidecar #68 Chairman Historic Management Committee Victoria
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter."
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conker
Really - acotrel - Now banned

Victoria


361 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2011 :  11:00:30 PM  Show Profile Send conker a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
The best rules is no rules ! Better to have a cross-period class for 350cc single and twin cylinder fourstrokes, and forget the rest. The GCRs control the fuel so P3,P4 bikes are compatible with P5,P6. If you think tyre sizes or suspensions are important on a 350, you are kidding yourselves.
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conker
Really - acotrel - Now banned

Victoria


361 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2011 :  11:05:03 PM  Show Profile Send conker a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
If the CB350 guys have no interest in getting their own race, where does that leave anyone else ?
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john
Forum Moderator

Victoria


3100 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2011 :  07:14:05 AM  Show Profile Send john a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Its not an issue.
The 125 blokes have started, now the Vic Historic Management Committee is working on P5 up to 500cc to draw new racers into the sport.
 

 
John Daley Sidecar #68 Chairman Historic Management Committee Victoria
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter."
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GD66
Senior Member

Western Australia


390 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2011 :  9:18:13 PM  Show Profile Send GD66 a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Believe it all you like, John. Bike racers will grab stuff like that when it comes up, as a CB350 WAS one of the most cost-effective classic racers you could produce, BUT NO LONGER !
When was the last P4 350 Honda racer trotted out in your neck of the woods ? Ben Fahey's bike, and that was 2004 : there have been two produced since in Queensland. I am done arguing with you on this point. Later P5 and P6 bigbore bikes are easier to find, and cheaper to race-prepare. Move on.
Or better still, get a K4 onto the track...
Won't be happening.
Thank you, and good night.
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conker
Really - acotrel - Now banned

Victoria


361 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2011 :  9:52:58 PM  Show Profile Send conker a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Why did this discussion happen ?
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conker
Really - acotrel - Now banned

Victoria


361 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2011 :  06:41:06 AM  Show Profile Send conker a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
I believe you guys have a phobia about broad banding historic periods - you are stuck in a rut ! !
I cannot think of any 350cc or 500cc fourstroke single or twin, that's around second hand in the numbers needed, to make it worth starting an historic class specifically for them ! Two cross-period classes based on capacity for any four stroke singles and twins, would be a much better option. Then we'd have real races which actually sound right ?
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conker
Really - acotrel - Now banned

Victoria


361 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2011 :  06:44:40 AM  Show Profile Send conker a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
John,
I watched a two stroke race at one of your meetings at Bradford with both period 4 and Period 5 machines in it. It was really great ! If you can get it right once , why not extend the idea ?
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conker
Really - acotrel - Now banned

Victoria


361 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2011 :  08:13:02 AM  Show Profile Send conker a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
John
' Vic Historic Management Committee is working on P5 up to 500cc to draw new racers into the sport.'

Up to 500cc cross-period thunderbikes, and you've got the makings of an Australian Classic Senior TT ! - Aircooled fourstroke singles, twins and triples - no two strokes, small multis, or superbikes ! The year of manufacture is not relevent !
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john
Forum Moderator

Victoria


3100 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2011 :  08:19:17 AM  Show Profile Send john a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
I have been talking with peoiple who were interested in CB350, but saw the improvements made and panicked. I explained just start and have a go.
They are repelled by the improvements they say. Now, I assume that is the truth, because I also know that others will not race unless they think they can win.

So there are many forces out there.
 

 
John Daley Sidecar #68 Chairman Historic Management Committee Victoria
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter."
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Ben
Honda CB350 Racers Promotion - Moderator

Victoria


288 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2011 :  1:56:58 PM  Show Profile Send Ben a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Hi All!!!!!

Saw my name mentioned above and thought I should chime in and also add that I am looking forward to the Southern Classic! As a spectator.... Has been a while, I have been diligently trying to build myself a shed to get my bike back on the track (can't maintain a race bike out in the open eh....).... getting there and really looking forward to getting the saga back out there again sometime soon.

RE: getting a stock class up and running, without question the CB350 is way out of this area now. I believe when I bought my CB as an old race bike I may well have been on the cusp for a rapid escalation in the perceived value of old bikes. Glad I bought it then, I could not replce it now that is for sure.

I would suggest that rather than focussing on a particular type of bike (that remains static in time and therefore either becomes rarer/more expensive or people just don't want to race them), a particular "age " of bike be used. Not period, just age; meaning that the class moves with time, creating new opportunities for new bikes on a annual basis.

Fact of the matter is that building a classic racer, that hangs together and is safe, let alone quick, for P3 or P4 is insanely expensive now if we are honest about it (mmmm why my bike is not yet back on the track chasing Glenn and Mick around) We need a solution that is not dependent on a year based system, that provides for new machines to be eligible regularly.

E.g. something like the "20 year class", based on the current year, not a set period.....??
 

 
Try Everything
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john feakes
Advanced Member

Victoria


790 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2011 :  09:51:08 AM  Show Profile Send john feakes a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Ben, welcome back.
I think that one of the great problems we face is that by the time a bike model is
old enough to be considered historic it has also become a rarity.
Seriously, to try to promote a one model class of 40 year old bikes will always be an uphill struggle.
If we relaxed our rules somewhat and weren't so obsessed with year of manufacture we might see an increase in participation.
I truly believe that the technology is far more important than the year of manufacture and that with some sensible technical requirements we could encourage more replica bikes utilising out of period engines.
I'll duck for cover now.
 

 
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE

A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple.
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racer7
Level 2 Member


67 Posts

Posted - 05 Nov 2011 :  07:49:43 AM  Show Profile Send racer7 a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
I admire the passion of the few, but agree that racing a CB350, which no matter how much you spend, will never be competitive against factory produced dedicated race bikes. Read Yamaha TR2 etc. It didn't work in the late 60's, and didn't work in the early 70's. Due to the History of Motorcycles, the early/ mid 60's, two-strokes were NOT the machine to have! CB350's perhaps should be moved to P3, then 4-strokes would race against 4-strokes. But then how much would it cost to be competitive against one of 'Jerry's' pieces of magnificent engineering? But then I'm never going to be a 'Gun' rider either, so .......
Guess I'll just keep plodding around at the back and get used to being lapped every 4 laps at the Creek!
racer7
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Jerry
Level 2 Member

South Australia


68 Posts

Posted - 05 Nov 2011 :  08:49:54 AM  Show Profile Send Jerry a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Dear People, I often read with fascination about the problems of affordability regarding race bikes. I am one of those people who could not afford. I therefore taught myself wheel building, frame making, fuel tank and seat making in alloy. I could not afford TIG and I taught myself to weld alloy with the torch. I could not afford to get porting done so I taught myself. I learnt as much about suspension as I could and the same about carburation. There is so much information available now on the internet which makes everything so much easier than it used to be. Honda CB/CL 350 parts and engines are available on Ebay. Complete engine for US$100.00. Crankshafts and heads US$50. The most expensive part of a race bike is the time to build and as can be imagined my time input has been huge. I cannot see any reason why 4 strokes and 2 strokes cant compete with each other for P3 and P4. Especially the 350 class.With 4 strokes it just takes more thought, work and dedication to play that never ending game of Chess we call racing and remember winning is NOT everything. What IS is improving on what we personally have done before. All the best Jerry
 

 
Jerry
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Allan
Site Moderator

National


599 Posts

Posted - 05 Nov 2011 :  08:50:19 AM  Show Profile  Visit Allan's Homepage Send Allan a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 

racer7
Guess I'll just keep plodding around at the back and get used to being lapped every 4 laps at the Creek!

just up the pace a little (just break a bit later) so its every 5 laps then aim every 6 laps snd sh*t iam on the same lsp ..easy wernt it!!
 

 
Allan Greening

 
Edited by - Allan on 05 Nov 2011 08:51:54 AM
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john
Forum Moderator

Victoria


3100 Posts

Posted - 05 Nov 2011 :  12:45:31 PM  Show Profile Send john a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Thanks fellas for the comments. In particular to jerry for pointing out that his success comes from working at it. Racer 7, my view of racing is to try and beat a friend rather than win a race. That way I can enjoy what ever position I am placed in.
 

 
John Daley Sidecar #68 Chairman Historic Management Committee Victoria
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter."
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racer7
Level 2 Member


67 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2011 :  08:07:59 AM  Show Profile Send racer7 a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Hi to all those on this Forum subject. Thanks for your words of encouragement Jerry. Trouble is my 'friend' is on a TD2! He smiles sympathetically as I relate my latest engine mods in my efforts! I think I hate him It is attributed to Mike Hailwood, on being questioned on the ability/ possibility of remaining competitive against the Factory Yamahas ...."probably add another two cyclinders .... that's what Honda does, doesn't it?" At that stage he was on the glorious 6 cylinder RC174 But ... I have fun, and remain committed to the Honda cause! My old School Teacher normally commented on my end of year report "He appears to be a slow learner"
To remain on subject, any Barn Finds out there waiting to be found for a CB350 Class?
racer7
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john feakes
Advanced Member

Victoria


790 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2011 :  08:34:57 AM  Show Profile Send john feakes a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Words of wisdom Jerry.
I had a look on world ebay and there are, as you say, quite a few bikes for sale and numerous parts, mainly in the U.S.A. The prices seem very reasonable.
Shipping is not a problem, but would add around $1,000 depending on where the bike was located. California being the best starting point.
There are numerous race parts available for these bikes, check out Hales Honda for a start.
I reckon it would be possible to get a starter bike on track for about $6,000.
 

 
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE

A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple.
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Jerry
Level 2 Member

South Australia


68 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2011 :  08:49:52 AM  Show Profile Send Jerry a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Dear Racer 7, You should leave your TD2 friend out of it. Racing is about yourself and the improvements you can make to yourself and your chosen machinery. As for Honda I promise you that it isnt brand name that I am aligned to. I like good basic engineering and tuning or re engineering potential. The early Hondas including the CB350 have that in spades. It is all up to you young feller as to what you do and achieve for yourself.Lok at the PI Island Classic lap records sometime and check the differences in Lap times between 2 stroke and 4 stroke. I dont think there are many excuses for any of us. All the best Jerry
 

 
Jerry
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john
Forum Moderator

Victoria


3100 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2011 :  10:40:49 AM  Show Profile Send john a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Its amazing what good information can do to a conversation.
I was always surprised to read that CB350 were impossible to find.
Anyway, after my earlier dummy spit I am still keen to enthuse people to get involved.
Just do it!
 

 
John Daley Sidecar #68 Chairman Historic Management Committee Victoria
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter."
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Jerry
Level 2 Member

South Australia


68 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2011 :  10:55:47 AM  Show Profile Send Jerry a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Now you are talking John! There is no time like the present and guess where Iam. Work of course to keep my show on the road. I am very appreciative of all of YOU people and of course my darling wife and young daughters that I can continue to feed my sickness which is of course M/Cycle racing and we all know that Quote of Steve McQueen. All the best Jerry
 

 
Jerry
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conker
Really - acotrel - Now banned

Victoria


361 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2011 :  9:05:12 PM  Show Profile Send conker a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
There are only four types of racing bikes:

GP bikes -two strokes, and small multis.
Thunderbikes - aircooled four stroke singles and twins.
Superbikes
Sidecars.

How about running them in their own capacity classes without regard for year of manufacture ? Feature races on that basis now and then could be very pleasant ! The log books would keep them authentic, and if you choose to race an early bike, at least the technology would be the same !
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john
Forum Moderator

Victoria


3100 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2011 :  10:20:21 PM  Show Profile Send john a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Al, maybe get the winton mcc to try and event like that.
If it works I imagaine everybody will copy it.
 

 
John Daley Sidecar #68 Chairman Historic Management Committee Victoria
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter."
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