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Ben
Honda CB350 Racers Promotion - Moderator

Victoria


288 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2004 :  10:51:01 AM  Show Profile Send Ben a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Hi all,

I have read about fitting early XL250/350 triple clamps/stem and forks to a CB350. Has anyone done this with any degree of success? It seems to be pretty much a straight swap as it is roumoured that the clamps and stem fit perfectly and the axle is the correct size. My bike has a T500 front drum with standard forks and I'm hoping this could be an easy and cheap way to strengthen up the front end while maintaing the existing brake.

Any Thoughts?

Thanks and Cheers,
Ben.
 

 
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john
Forum Moderator

Victoria


3100 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2004 :  1:46:29 PM  Show Profile Send john a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Ben, I dont ride solos, but are the forks that bad they need changing to the extent that you speak of?
 

 
John Daley Sidecar #68 Chairman Historic Management Committee Victoria
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter."
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Ben
Honda CB350 Racers Promotion - Moderator

Victoria


288 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2004 :  1:53:51 PM  Show Profile Send Ben a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Hi John,

I am just fairly obsessed with modifying things! But, it seems that if the front end can be given more strength (less flex) then that must be a good thing. The forks are fairly flexy on this bike, if I hold the wheel between my legs and push the bars left or right the forks twist quite alot. The conversion means going from 32mm tubes to 35mm tubes, which should in therory have a positive impact on front end stability.
 

 
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steve
Level 2 Member

Queensland


86 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2004 :  9:33:31 PM  Show Profile Send steve a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Hi Ben
35mm sounds better than 32 How about a fork a brace incorporated into the front guard, bigger axle, big dia & hollow double pinch bolts bothsides tapered bearings in the goose neck
Steve
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matcho mick
Advanced Member

New South Wales


569 Posts

Posted - 18 Apr 2004 :  11:15:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit matcho mick's Homepage Send matcho mick a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
G'day Ben,what ever you do,make sure it's "in period",mine has 33mm forks with std honda disc setup,dosen't flex,i think it's 350/4 front end(CB350K5 Japan home market setup?),hows it going,have you tried it out yet trackwise?cheers for now,Mick
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popeye
Level 2 Member

Western Australia


187 Posts

Posted - 19 Apr 2004 :  7:38:53 PM  Show Profile Send popeye a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
The 360 practice bike being assembled now has 35mm forks and I am going to run the stock single disc til the thing is sorted, the 350 race bike is getting the full monty 4LS(GT750) front brake and wider triple trees with fork brace, it will be a tad heavy up front but will slow up as late as I am game to every time on the faster tracks.

Mick, is your disc drilled and how does it compare with the 2LS T500 brake.
 

 
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we may as well dance
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matcho mick
Advanced Member

New South Wales


569 Posts

Posted - 19 Apr 2004 :  11:29:26 PM  Show Profile  Visit matcho mick's Homepage Send matcho mick a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
G'day Popeye,stick with the disc mate,kettle brake/f/end weigh too heavy for small honda,take too long to accelerate?look good but thats about it!havn't bothered drilling disc yet,make sure you use braided line not std rubber brakehose too!(use XR brake line from wreckers,just wrap/loop it round the frame asit's miles too long!,or cut/shut if your'e neat freak?) did you think to put h/d camchain in,i remember you mentioned changing it?(219fts? if memories working?)has heavier side plates?,T500 brakes on Ben's 350,i have no experience with that brake,but it's a nice wide shoe,nicely finned too,but disc is simpler setup allround i guess,just get some quality pads?,cheers for now,Mick
ps 360 b4 Dave lock it?
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popeye
Level 2 Member

Western Australia


187 Posts

Posted - 20 Apr 2004 :  08:10:06 AM  Show Profile Send popeye a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Thanx Mick,

looks like I may trade the 4ls for some better stuff or sell it to a guy I know doing up an Aermacchi who is keen.

I am now working at a bikeshop/wreckers and should be able to find something interesting in the way of brake lines. The first 360 engine is to punt the bike around to sort out handling, will take on board any advice on beefing up for the good race engine.

can you run a single disc on P4's (69 CB750's had 'em so I am assuming it is OK) every one I have seen so far has a drum.

ps. I think we are in the right box, the overlord may let us prattle on here










 

 
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we may as well dance
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David
Site Administrator

Australia


991 Posts

Posted - 20 Apr 2004 :  08:40:11 AM  Show Profile  Visit David's Homepage Send David a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
If you are referring to me, then I will allow you to "prattle" here..
quote:
Originally posted by popeye

ps. I think we are in the right box, the overlord may let us prattle on here
I did not think it was that harsh by locking the topic as the replies were nothing to do with the bike fester was selling/had sold.
 

 
Regards,

David
Webmaster & Owner of Classic Motorcycling Australia

Quote: I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted to be paid.
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popeye
Level 2 Member

Western Australia


187 Posts

Posted - 21 Apr 2004 :  07:53:21 AM  Show Profile Send popeye a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Tongue firmly in cheek here David, you were quite right to kill it cos it wasn't in the right place, as to the overlord reference I always refer to webmasters/admins by that title.

 

 
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we may as well dance
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matcho mick
Advanced Member

New South Wales


569 Posts

Posted - 24 Apr 2004 :  12:22:45 AM  Show Profile  Visit matcho mick's Homepage Send matcho mick a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
G'day Popeye,most just run drums as they're more traditional i guess?,nothing like the bite from a good drum?,but disc setups just a lot lighter generally speaking?,jeezas!, working in a candy store mate!,should access some good project materials there eh?,cheers for now,Mick
ps 376,(but who's counting?)
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popeye
Level 2 Member

Western Australia


187 Posts

Posted - 24 Apr 2004 :  08:23:32 AM  Show Profile Send popeye a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Candy store is full of chookies and 80's tourers, still a few tasty bits floating around, not worth advertising on here at the moment but if a P6 eventuates, things like our red hot Gpz1000RX motor for a sidecar will be very hard to resist.
 

 
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we may as well dance
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2019 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2004 :  09:34:10 AM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Ben, Keep your Suzuki 4ls brake, you might want to run period 3 sometime. Even though the brake is ineligible, you can paint it black!
When you change the forks on your Honda be careful that the offset on the yokes is 'correct'. You can end up with very quick steering, or even 'self-steering'.
(I wouldn't use a drum brake if you paid me - my record is four times in one day at Phillip Island, including one big one at Siberia, all due to a locking drum brake!)
 

 
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popeye
Level 2 Member

Western Australia


187 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2004 :  5:20:30 PM  Show Profile Send popeye a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
I got the 4 shoe brake, it will probably end up on another blokes aermacchi if we can sort it out. The 360 will run with a dry weight of about 120kg and just under 45 horse when sorted, a couple of my mates are running P5 on LC yamaha's, may as well chase them around and try and keep them in sight.
 

 
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we may as well dance
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matcho mick
Advanced Member

New South Wales


569 Posts

Posted - 28 Apr 2004 :  10:04:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit matcho mick's Homepage Send matcho mick a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Hey Acrotel,4 repeat "mistakes"in one race meeting,thats something i would have kept to myself,cheers Mick
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2019 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2004 :  4:43:45 PM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
It was completely due to using a drum brake witth the backing plate made by Morrie Hunter. It had too much self-servo, and when you put it on, it grabbed, then stayed on. If you don't know what happens when your front brake drags, try getting around a corner some time with the brake partly on. All those beaut looking drum brakes would make good boat anchors! Discs are the answer!
 

 
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2019 Posts

Posted - 01 May 2004 :  01:58:04 AM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Mick, I've decided to tell the story of the Hunter Brake. In about 1967 I went to look at some manx stuff a guy had for sale in Greensborough. There were five single knocker manx motors, and a featherbed frame and a plunger frame and a couple of old Inter tanks - (you wouldn't want any of it - much) - a Hunter hub and two backing plates. I bought the brake. I had my Triumph GP brake skimmed and new linings fitted to the Hunter backing plate, set it all up nicely, and off I went to Phillip Island which had just reopened after about 7 years closed to the public.
Went out in practice, and wasn't impressed. The surface was all nicely redone with non-skid, and lots of loose stones which kept stinging me.
On the first full lap I reached Southern Loop, and the bike had a mind of its own. I ended up running wide and started dodging the tea trees. Got back on the bitumen, and dived under Jeff Curley at Repco, and went like b*ggery towards Siberia. When I gave the brake the slightest touch it locked and threw me to the road at about 100mph, I rolled every inch of the way. Got back on the bike and completed the lap, and as I went to go into the pits (back entrance), I lightly touched the brake again and the b*rstard threw me into a mud puddle.
Undeterred I fronted up for a race. When I got to Siberia, I found the bike wanted to run wide again. I thought I was imagining it, and gave it a bit more stick. I speared off into the drainage ditch, and slid up a four foot high bank on my back.
So back to the drawing board. I fitted 7R brakes to the triumph and sold the GP wheel to an apprentice at the Ordnance Factory. I sold the Hunter backing plate to Dave Large who worked with me there. Dave asked me who had the Triumph wheel. I told him who had it but warned him about ever putting the two bits together again.
You might remember Dave and Geoff Neil being thrown over the handle bars of the Triumph outfit, coming out of the esses at Winton back in the mid seventies - all thanks to good old Hunter brakes.
I've still got another Hunter backing plate if you want to try it, in fact I've also got the 8 inch conical hub they made.
Getting the 7R brake to work properly, is another story, and I got a dislocated collar bone for my efforts there, when Russell King changed line infront of me and grabbed the brakes.
DISCS ARE BETTER THAN DRUM BRAKES ANY DAY!
I can laugh about Phillip Island now, but at the time I wasn't too happy.
 

 
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matcho mick
Advanced Member

New South Wales


569 Posts

Posted - 02 May 2004 :  12:40:34 PM  Show Profile  Visit matcho mick's Homepage Send matcho mick a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Ouch! AL, thems painful memories mate,i have a T500 backing plate set up by well known Sydney race brake person back in 70's,1st big ask at Oran park it locked sending my mate into orbit,it has never turned in a wheel since!!, i know about racing with front brake on,East ck years back,crankpin #15 let go,i tried to roll down hill to turn 9,couldn't even push it,the cable adjuster had vibrated up,no wonder the crank let go?,(pity the throttle cable nipple didn't 1st?),my front brake is a 8" beauty,when it had original green linings it was very good,(after careful warming!!),since it's reline with environ-mental friendly ones it's not as good,but hey they only slow you down anyway!,i also came off on a norton atlas at Oran park's end of main straight,wnt in deep,was thinking whats that strange noise,it was the rear brake lever digging in,the shoes went over cam thanks to the weight x lever+ co effiecent of track reefing the lever backwards,did a nice pirowet(u spell it better?),in the middle of the corner,was in 2nd place at the time,still had time to stick my fingers up at the decending pack & push off the track,with the back wheel still locked,like you say funny now?,still,all good fun eh?,cheers Mick
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2019 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2004 :  10:04:51 AM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Mick, I think some of these young guys that stick the boot into their V8s need the experience of a good high speed crash, to wake them up. A lot of people could do worse than race historic bikes for their jollies!
I think I fell off in the first five meetings I rode in, back then. I don't seem to do that any more (touch wood).
 

 
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matcho mick
Advanced Member

New South Wales


569 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2004 :  12:10:54 AM  Show Profile  Visit matcho mick's Homepage Send matcho mick a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Hey Alan,i think i must of jinxed meself?,talking of brakes,last weekend,oran park,flag drops,so does the clutch,nearly stall,more revs,try again!,the bloody front wheels locked,hmmmm goes backwards but?,gridmashall carries me off the track via the frontend lift,wheels it backwards all the way back to pits(how embarrassment!)broken return spring!,bugger,at least it didn't lock up on the warmup lap eh?,two sets of new springs going in(& lockwire through the centres)cheers Mick
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2019 Posts

Posted - 17 May 2004 :  4:09:38 PM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Mick, the worst thing is when the brake drags - the steering is fixed in one attitude and you run off bends at high speed. Anyway glad the jigger didn't dump you on the deck.
You can keep your drum brakes, I don't think I'll be racing with them again - a bit risky! At least with discs you can usually grab a handful with confidence.
 

 
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Ben
Honda CB350 Racers Promotion - Moderator

Victoria


288 Posts

Posted - 20 May 2004 :  2:38:04 PM  Show Profile Send Ben a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Heya Mick!

Good to hear from you! I have not had the 350 out on the track yet, as being the perfectionist I am I want to restore it first (sometimes I enjoy this more than riding the damn things....). Should be done by spring........ If I can get it started........ My neighbours must think I'm a bit simple as every weekend I am found pushing the bike up and down the street trying start it......... bloody thing.

C U around no doubt, I might even need you to make a CR type tank if I get obsessed enough!

Ben.
 

 
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popeye
Level 2 Member

Western Australia


187 Posts

Posted - 20 May 2004 :  8:47:22 PM  Show Profile Send popeye a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Onya Ben,

keep us posted how it progresses, seems a bit suss how it wont start.

The mighty "Team Wombat" CB360 will be having its first attempt at starting and engine tune on the last w/end in June at Mac Park, still have the weight pegged at 120kg, decided to run with the disc front (Hi Alan) and total loss stock ignition. biggest bummer was finding out a great 350 engine I got given with my spare 360 is an inch too tall to fit in the 360 frame. Once the engine is sorted I have three more track/tuning days to sort out the suspension and learn to ride it, present debut date is pencilled in for our "Master of Mac Park " meeting in October, if it runs well enough we should show up in Victoria next year.
 

 
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we may as well dance
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matcho mick
Advanced Member

New South Wales


569 Posts

Posted - 26 May 2004 :  11:59:02 PM  Show Profile  Visit matcho mick's Homepage Send matcho mick a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
G'day Ben,maybe next time your'e pushing it/ won't start,try swapping plug leads over?,just think how more impressed the neighbours will be when it does finally start(on race pipes!),um!,it does have spark?,(rule 1 never push bike with no spark!!)cheers Mick
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matcho mick
Advanced Member

New South Wales


569 Posts

Posted - 31 May 2004 :  10:22:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit matcho mick's Homepage Send matcho mick a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Hey Ben,you got that motor making the right noises yet?,i got flogged at Oran Park yesterday,need another 10 horses to keep up with the others,or maybe just a decent cam?any offers out there?(did learn something but?,my tyre guage was reading 5lb too much!!)explains the squirming sensations?)cheers Mick
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Ben
Honda CB350 Racers Promotion - Moderator

Victoria


288 Posts

Posted - 01 Jun 2004 :  12:07:43 PM  Show Profile Send Ben a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Heya Mick, tough break! Maybe a small turbo or nitrous injection (cleverly hidden of course) is the answer? Heehee. I went a little mad the other day and started stripping the whole thing down. Checked the spark (as you described) and it does indeed spark........ but, the right hand plug fires twice in one cycle..... confusing. OK, if you imagine this pattern (R = right plug, L = left) L, R R, L, R R. I replaced the plugs as the right one was REALLY worn. Maybe that will fix it?
 

 
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popeye
Level 2 Member

Western Australia


187 Posts

Posted - 01 Jun 2004 :  9:06:52 PM  Show Profile Send popeye a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
L, R R, L, R R.

now, change over the condensers and see if it goes

R,LL,R,LL

just a thought, if that doesn't work rip down to your local wreckers and get a magneto ignition off an early KX80 or some such, mount it where your alternator is (ask me nicely and I'll tell you how to stop it living in an oil bath) and wire it to a dual outlet coil. Instant waste spark ignition and no modern style components (motoplat magneto's have been used on CB twins forever)
but please contact your local MA tech dude for a final ruling before any serious mod is contemplated.

 

 
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we may as well dance
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matcho mick
Advanced Member

New South Wales


569 Posts

Posted - 02 Jun 2004 :  12:28:23 AM  Show Profile  Visit matcho mick's Homepage Send matcho mick a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
um Popeye,don't early KXes,or for that matter most early two stroke ignitions retard at max revs,you have to go to diode control? to stop this?,stick to 4 stroke ignition systems,(safer?),cheers Mick
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popeye
Level 2 Member

Western Australia


187 Posts

Posted - 02 Jun 2004 :  6:04:11 PM  Show Profile Send popeye a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
To my knowledge pre CDI magneto's do not retard at max RPM, will have to read a little more before I test but there are a couple of guys in the US running early MX magneto's on CB twins.

My best advisor on these bikes had all his success with them using a total loss stock ignition with a couple of K-mart car coils, his engines were peaking at 12,000 RPM in their final stage of development. The gentleman passed away in April so unfortunately I have to dig up my information from everyone else now.
 

 
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we may as well dance
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matcho mick
Advanced Member

New South Wales


569 Posts

Posted - 02 Jun 2004 :  11:19:28 PM  Show Profile  Visit matcho mick's Homepage Send matcho mick a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
hey Popeye,you talking about flywheel magnetos with points,ok they don't advance/retard!,(apart from XR75/80's)but the ideas to get away from points to electronics,my 350 has std setup with car coils running total loss system,it's ok up to valve bounce!!(which from memory is what Ben's setup is too?)cheers Mick
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Ben
Honda CB350 Racers Promotion - Moderator

Victoria


288 Posts

Posted - 03 Jun 2004 :  09:44:43 AM  Show Profile Send Ben a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Surely is Mick, those car coils (Bosch GT40) are ace. They bring back fond memories of my brother's Valiant!
 

 
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