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 CB350: The Saga!
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yamaman
Level 2 Member

Western Australia


44 Posts

Posted - 15 Jul 2005 :  7:25:25 PM  Show Profile Send yamaman a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Hey Ben, before you commit to anything, give this guy a call, he seems fairly on to it and will custom make if requred. Was a pleasure to deal with him myself. My bike runs no battery and starts first push, no worries, with his system (just dont get the welder out till its all disconnected). You must be logged in to see this link.
Cheers yamaman
 

 
Beer makes you feel like you should feel when your not drinking beer
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popeye
Level 2 Member

Western Australia


187 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2005 :  09:21:51 AM  Show Profile Send popeye a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
told ya he was good .........
 

 
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we may as well dance
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Ben
Honda CB350 Racers Promotion - Moderator

Victoria


288 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2005 :  10:23:12 AM  Show Profile Send Ben a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Would you believe it, I actually got the saga along to the HMRAV track day yesterday! After a rainy run in the novice group, the track dried up nicely and I got to run with the classics...... well, at least get lapped by them! The only people I passed were those broken down (thanks for that!), but I was just happy to have it out and running!
Good to meet up with Alan and his mates, was nice to have someone there to show me the ropes.
I agree with yammaman in that it felt a little out of control for a first timer (in the morning at least), it would be nice to see "an official" greeting the newbies and fully explaining how the day works etc etc. Would help to ease some nerves! Saying that though, people were very friendly and helpful, just took a little while to get into the rhythm of things!
Lots of talk about the K4's as well, seems they are like a disease spreading through the ranks! The bike ran well, just some carb problems to sort out and all will be well!
Cheers, C U out there!

 

 
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keith campbell
Level 3 Member

Victoria


248 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2005 :  12:19:46 PM  Show Profile Send keith campbell a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Good on you Ben,look forward to seeing you at the Sthn Classic in Oct,cheers Keith.
P.S. Did any further discussion take place about organising "Running Sheets" about bike details,etc. for display in Pit areas at meetings?
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Ben
Honda CB350 Racers Promotion - Moderator

Victoria


288 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2005 :  1:59:46 PM  Show Profile Send Ben a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Thanks Keith! I'll do my best to ride in the classic and it should be a great weekend as always! I did put together a HMRAV logo'ed "spec" sheet to detail all mods to a machine and submitted it to John but haven't heard anything back yet. John, what do you think?
People could either just display the spec sheet, or a larger one could be constructed to include pictures and history if desired.
Would be great if this became a universal template?
 

 
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Ben
Honda CB350 Racers Promotion - Moderator

Victoria


288 Posts

Posted - 30 Aug 2005 :  09:11:45 AM  Show Profile Send Ben a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Latest Update on the Saga:

Went along to another tuning day on the weekend, much better riding this time! Pays to watch the fast riders eh? I fitted a new set of Amal Mark II 32mm carbs and sorted the mains; 210 seems about right for unleaded. Man, the power increase over the old 28mm mikunis is quite amazing! Plenty enough power for me at the moment! Maybe just need to sort the intake length to bring peak power back down into the usable range (8000 - 11000).
I hope to see you all at the Southern Classic! Watch out for me! (won't be hard, I'll be the slowest one )
Cheers.
 

 
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Former Member
deleted


11 Posts

Posted - 05 Sep 2005 :  5:12:27 PM  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Hey Ben,

Where did you get your front fork brace from?

Whitto
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Ben
Honda CB350 Racers Promotion - Moderator

Victoria


288 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2005 :  3:35:28 PM  Show Profile Send Ben a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
I got it on ebay, from the states. Its not a true fork brace (that is, one that braces the sliders together), but helps to stiffen the lower triple clamp.
Cheers.
 

 
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Ben
Honda CB350 Racers Promotion - Moderator

Victoria


288 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2005 :  09:50:33 AM  Show Profile Send Ben a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Hiya All,

Well, the Southern Classic is gone for now, I am still on a high and planning a few more "upgrades" to the saga. The weekend went well, racing was great and the saga performed well, only some minor carb problems on Saturday (found after dismantling entire ignition and replacing battery.....of course), after that all was good. Thanks to Matcho M, Clive H, Keith C, Eddie L and Alan from Denni for making the first experience in vintage racing one to remember. I will be back!

Before the next meet I should have the following complete, and will hopefully gain a little more zip when exiting corners. (I just have to learn to ride it better IN the corners...)

1. GPZ750 Pistons - Anyone got any specifics on fitting them? I have a set, and they look like a good fit the way they are (after bore to 66mm) but someone mentioned machine work a while back. How much? Where? Approx C.ratio when fitted 11.1?

2. Needle roller conversion on cam - Looks pretty straight forward, got the bearings and will keep you K4ites posted.

3. Lighten crank - Just have to work out a way to press the Bl##dy thing apart!!

I think I will leave it for a while after these!!

Still no photos of S/C, will post when I have them!
Cheers,
Ben.

 

 
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Edited by - Ben on 10 Oct 2005 09:52:18 AM
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2020 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2005 :  3:40:52 PM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Coulds be worth finding out what a Motec programmable ignition system is worth. Even the system off a VFR750 could give you access to vaccuum advance and retard.
There's plenty of info about if you ask the right people.
I know Brook Henry in WA uses Motec on the ducati, he might be prepared to discuss it with you.
 

 
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john
Forum Moderator

Victoria


3100 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2005 :  10:26:56 PM  Show Profile Send john a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Beeennnnyyy learn to race first before you fiddle with the donk. Otherwise you will be forever testing new donks. Perhaps play with a second engine instead. Remember if it has breasts or wheels it will cost you heaps so tread carefully.
 

 
John Daley Sidecar #68 Chairman Historic Management Committee Victoria
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter."
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Alan
Forum Moderator

Western Australia


353 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2005 :  11:12:53 PM  Show Profile Send Alan a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Its good advice from John, settle in to racing first, get your braking sorted and get your corner speed up and your straight line speed will improve at the same time.
When you do start making improvements make them slowly and research properly first. Remembering that the more you do the harder the bike will be to ride as it will end up with a narrower power band etc and most of your power will end up in the top end.
The most important thing is to enjoy what you are doing no matter where you are in the race.

Alan Sidecar 21 WA
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2020 Posts

Posted - 11 Oct 2005 :  9:14:33 PM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Ben, the suzuki front brake I sold you has ME36 linings in it. They work well from cold, however you might get a bit of fade after 4 laps of a small circuit like winton or broady. I don't know what's available these days but ME36 was the go back then.
 

 
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Ben
Honda CB350 Racers Promotion - Moderator

Victoria


288 Posts

Posted - 12 Oct 2005 :  11:39:15 AM  Show Profile Send Ben a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Thanks All! Great advice, yes learning to actually ride faster safely is key! I am not going to do too many mods, only really the bearing conversion on the cam and higher comp/bigger bore pistons (on the go now with ignition shortly after..... thats where the $$ come in dammit!). The T500 front brake worked well, admittedly I am not using it to its limits, but felt pretty good. A little 'spongy' though (that is, limited feel for when it is actuated), maybe cable needs replacing?
Definitely enjoying it, not really interested in front running yet, just liking being out there!
 

 
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2020 Posts

Posted - 12 Oct 2005 :  12:44:50 PM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
I wouldn't even bother increasing bore and/or comp. The biggest advantage comes from fitting the good camshaft, and setting up for alcohol. Alcohol works at any compression ratio, you can get a bit more by increasing comp. ratio, but if you want reliability, you're probably better off with standard pistons. One good way to get more stem is to fit lighter pistons. I found some good racing pistons from a 4 valve superbike which could be fitted to my Norton with a bit of minor machining to the crowns (and making new alloy barrels). They are 120 gram lighter than standard Norton pistons, and have teflon coated skirts. They're even good forgings, and slipper profile. Something like that fitted to your motor would help it to go a bit quicker. They cost about $100 for piston, rings and gudgeon.
The T500 brake shouldn't feel 'spongy', but it'll always feel a bit vague compared to a disc. Dangerous things, drum brakes, but the Suzuki drums aren't that bad.
 

 
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matcho mick
Advanced Member

New South Wales


569 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2005 :  10:54:42 PM  Show Profile  Visit matcho mick's Homepage Send matcho mick a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Hiya Ben,was thinking ,just stick the spare kwaka piston & the old honda piston on common gudgeon pin to sus out the difference on "deck height"(if any),beats removing barrells again?,
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2020 Posts

Posted - 12 Dec 2005 :  08:00:00 AM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
How is it going, Ben? Did the alloy tank I sold you fit the Honda frame without mod? Have you found a decent way of getting sparks yet? How many rides have you had so far?
Best Regards,
Alan Cotterell
 

 
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Ben
Honda CB350 Racers Promotion - Moderator

Victoria


288 Posts

Posted - 15 Dec 2005 :  09:26:50 AM  Show Profile Send Ben a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Hi All,

Yeah, I checked the deck height difference prior to fitting the kwaka pistons, they were pretty much (my engineering is accurate only to a degree )the same. I figure that the slightly higher dome is what is causing the clearance problems.
My new head gasket arrived last night, it will provide an extra .007 clearance, taking total clearance up to about .032-035. Pretty good I think?.

Ignition: I obtained a 'prestolite' crank mounted electronic ignition (from a GS Suzuki - it is similar to a dyna s) and have had a mounting plate made up. No tests yet, but it is looking good, will keep you posted.

Alan, the tank went on as you sold it to me, but just didn't look right, so I chopped the base off and had a new base made up. It is now very similar to the original cyb350 tanks, great stuff.

Also, I have posted a few pics in the Gallery of me at the Southern classic (under classic bikes/racing). David, I have a couple more I would like to post, but they are about 200 over the size limit.... is there are way?
Enjoy!
Cheers,
Ben.
 

 
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Edited by - Ben on 15 Dec 2005 09:27:47 AM
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2020 Posts

Posted - 15 Dec 2005 :  12:28:23 PM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Ben, if ypu've got valve clearance problems, it's worth putting some pasticine where the valves get close to the piston, and turn the motor over. Then take a razor blade and section the plasticine, and you'll see just how close the valves are to tangling. You'll have to allow for valve 'float'. How's the riding going, are you getting 'smoother' ?
 

 
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David
Site Administrator

Australia


991 Posts

Posted - 15 Dec 2005 :  8:17:44 PM  Show Profile  Visit David's Homepage Send David a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Ben,

Email sent to you with an email address to send them to.
quote:
Originally posted by Ben

David, I have a couple more I would like to post, but they are about 200 over the size limit.... is there are way?
Thanks for that.. The pictures that you did upload have been posted.

 

 
Regards,

David
Webmaster & Owner of Classic Motorcycling Australia

Quote: I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted to be paid.
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Ben
Honda CB350 Racers Promotion - Moderator

Victoria


288 Posts

Posted - 19 Dec 2005 :  09:07:05 AM  Show Profile Send Ben a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Hi Again all,

David has kindly added a section under "Bikes Racing" in the gallery for my pictures from the southern classic. Hope you like them!

Thanks again David.
Ben.
 

 
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2020 Posts

Posted - 19 Dec 2005 :  11:48:05 AM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Had a look at the photo of you on the cb350 on the grid at broadford, I'm really impressed!!! Noted the Suzuki hubs - do the brakes work? The me36 linings were the message in the early 70s. Your bike looks great, it's a credit to you.
 

 
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Ben
Honda CB350 Racers Promotion - Moderator

Victoria


288 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2005 :  10:53:48 AM  Show Profile Send Ben a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Thanks Alan, still a bit to do (like get the engine back together!) but things are looking good. I have ordered a fairing from Matcho Mick as well, should look the part then!

I found the brakes quite good, actually better than the front disk on my 400/4. I'll stick with them for now, then maybe change to a 750 disk when I need it.

Cheers,
Ben.
 

 
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2020 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2005 :  12:29:53 PM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Ben, just the fact that you were able to build the bike, and actually get it racing restores a bit of faith to me. I was beginning to believe that the young guys these days couldn't build a bike, let alone race it. If there are more guys like you around, it looks good for the future of historic racing.
The Suzuki brakes work good, but when I had the T250, I finished up with a single suzuki disc on the front. I sold the bike to Ian Whitehead in the Hartwell club, and he won 23 races and 5 championships on it. The bike is now owned by Don Brisbane at Shepparton. He still races it.
 

 
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matcho mick
Advanced Member

New South Wales


569 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2005 :  11:37:31 PM  Show Profile  Visit matcho mick's Homepage Send matcho mick a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Ben,checked the piccies out,like the esess shot,(geezas i wish Broady was closer)hope you were carrying some corner speed in the other shot on the pit entry corner,(otherwise a tad wide mate? ),in the start line shot looks like my smoke was still hanging around from last year?? ,have to get me finger out if i'm to finish your wedding prezzie eh mate,
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Ben
Honda CB350 Racers Promotion - Moderator

Victoria


288 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2005 :  09:15:40 AM  Show Profile Send Ben a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Thanks Alan, I have been fortunate to have some enthusiastic and informed people helping me out with tech problems, from both here and in the US. The internet is a wonderful thing!
I think the main thing preventing greater involvement from people my age in historics is quite simply the cost of buying and/or building a bike. And most importantly, to really get into historics you have to be a little romantic about it, and enjoy re-inventing history so-to speak....
I would like to be able to ride in the 350 classic class as well (a norton anyone??) , but again, the cost of getting another bike is out of reach at this stage..... unfortunately, I think it is out of reach for most people my age.....Maybe later eh?

Mick, thanks matey, no hurry! Wedding present eh? I would have put it on my registry if I had known!
Of course I was carrying some speed (or did I just throw it over a little more for the camera ). Anyways, I had better do some work.
Cheers,
Ben.
 

 
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2020 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2005 :  7:16:29 PM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Ben, Renea at Glenrowan has a project slowly coming along. It's a rigid frame BSA 350. That would have to be the cheapest way to get into period 2 or 3. The beauty of running a 350 is that the internals don't get so stressed, and blowups can be limited, while making a really quick bike. Some of the 50s 350 bikes made up to about 40 bhp, and that's plenty to race with. 350 BSA parts seem to be around in fair quantity, and a lot of 500 parts fit.
As for a Norton, a friend of mine has the most trick 350 manx in captivity, trouble is to race ir you've got to be prepared to pay for the broken bits, which could include crankcases etc.
The thing we really need is 'supermono junior and senior', a class for each of 350s and 500s single cylinder four strokes, and we could really get two sensible, fairly cheap classes going.
 

 
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matcho mick
Advanced Member

New South Wales


569 Posts

Posted - 18 May 2006 :  11:08:06 PM  Show Profile  Visit matcho mick's Homepage Send matcho mick a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
the K diaries continued ,dug the smoker out again for old farts,(tried & failed to blow up in Tassie), started pulling motor out a week b4 meeting,got smart but,did leakdown test instead,compression going out inlet (again!!),readjusted valve clearance AGAIN,woohoo comps back,mac park here we come!!,just to be sure i reajusted ignition timing too,(one can never do too much matainance?),so another litre of Pennzoils best out the l/h pipe in 3 races on the saturday ,(hope the EPA's not reading this?)but hey we had fun ,warm up laps were critical to clear the plug (bad as a two stroke??)interchanging plugs after each race kept it in the running,sunday mornings maintenance session confirmed what i already knew,the inlet valve was receding into the seat,no adjustment left this time,so zero clearance = bugger all when hot(tassie allover again),but still got flogged around sunday for some more race fun ,at least the brakes were working,(front a lot better after i put some fluid in ,(tricky 1st session with no front brake ),Benny,i got secret K tuning tip 4 u,will send private,not sharing with the opposition ha ha ,cheers
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matcho mick
Advanced Member

New South Wales


569 Posts

Posted - 31 May 2006 :  11:24:11 PM  Show Profile  Visit matcho mick's Homepage Send matcho mick a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
warning!! warning!! (Ben) robinson, the SL's are coming?
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Ben
Honda CB350 Racers Promotion - Moderator

Victoria


288 Posts

Posted - 19 Jun 2006 :  10:13:11 AM  Show Profile Send Ben a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Hi Again all,

Finally got the new motor back together with GPZ pistons, increased compression (10.6:1) and needle roller conversion on the cam...... except, it now refuses to start.

When pushing, it pops and cracks (on both avgas and unleaded) but will not "take", when throttle is opened it just dies. I have tried all air screw (Amal Mark 2) settings from 1/2 to 3 turns, no help except that it won't even crackle over 2.5 turns.

Do I need to richen up the needles in line with the increased capacity and compression? Or could it be that the old ignition is no longer up to the job?

Any thoughts anyone? I am lost.

Thanks,
Ben.
 

 
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