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 2019 MA rules revision
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john
Forum Moderator

Victoria


3104 Posts

Posted - 14 Jun 2019 :  11:39:14 AM  Show Profile Send john a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
As chairman of the Vic Historic management committee, I am seeking feedback from riders about their views on the rules as listed below. Vic O'drisscol and I will then work out a response from Victoria and submit that back to M.A.
If you can put on topic comments and suggestions here we will look at them.

If you want to go off topic. IE comments about different rules etc, put them as a new topic. Thanks

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John Daley Sidecar #68 Chairman Historic Management Committee Victoria
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter."

matcho mick
Advanced Member

New South Wales


569 Posts

Posted - 14 Jun 2019 :  11:50:22 AM  Show Profile  Visit matcho mick's Homepage Send matcho mick a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
???????????????????????
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john
Forum Moderator

Victoria


3104 Posts

Posted - 14 Jun 2019 :  3:33:20 PM  Show Profile Send john a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
what do you find tricky mick? john
 

 
John Daley Sidecar #68 Chairman Historic Management Committee Victoria
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter."
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matcho mick
Advanced Member

New South Wales


569 Posts

Posted - 14 Jun 2019 :  5:51:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit matcho mick's Homepage Send matcho mick a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
i can't find "listed below"???
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john
Forum Moderator

Victoria


3104 Posts

Posted - 17 Jun 2019 :  1:31:36 PM  Show Profile Send john a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Ok, it comes on my screen, so I will need to work this out
It comes up as an image for me.
send me an email and ~I will send it to you, I hope others can see it
 

 
John Daley Sidecar #68 Chairman Historic Management Committee Victoria
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter."
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2042 Posts

Posted - 24 Nov 2019 :  12:14:54 PM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Because of lack of interest, Monday has been cancelled.
 

 
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2042 Posts

Posted - 24 Nov 2019 :  12:24:50 PM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
No rules is the best rules. All we need are capacity classes for similar TYPES of bike and only ONE cut-off date (Y2K ). If it is a two stroke, let it run with two-strokes of similar engine capacity. If it is a four-stroke twin, do similar. If it is a three or four cylinder four stroke - in their own grouping in capacity classes. That way you should have 3 groups with three capacity classes. When you add the sidecars, you should be able to run two complete sessions on one race day. - FORGET ALL THE OTHER CRAP ABOUT PERIODS !
 

 
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2042 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2019 :  5:24:23 PM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
At the Barry Sheene Memorial Trophy race at Goodwood this year, there were three 3-cylinder MV Agusta entered - Guess what won ? And when you add two-strokes, the situation becomes even worse. Most of the bikes are single cylinder four-strokes. In many race classes when that sort of thing happens, it spells finish for the class.


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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2042 Posts

Posted - 14 Dec 2019 :  03:31:36 AM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
RULE #! : DO NOT run two-strokes in the same races as four-strokes.
RUKE #2 : DO NOT run four cylinder four-strokes in the same races as single or twin cylinder four-strokes.

IT IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE


RULE #3 : Bring back capacity classes and rider gradings.
 

 
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2042 Posts

Posted - 16 Dec 2019 :  06:05:40 AM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
If we genuinely wanted to improve the historic racing rules, wouldn't it be wise to talk to the old A-grade riders ? People such as Bob Rosenthal, John Maher, Steve Oszko, Bill Horsman and the Hintons ?
We currently rely on guys who are effectively CAR racers. It is very difficult to fall off a motorcycle which has a third wheel propping it up.
 

 
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2042 Posts

Posted - 27 Dec 2019 :  08:33:17 AM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Did log books stop the cheaters or just provide another revenue stream for MA ?
 

 
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2042 Posts

Posted - 27 Dec 2019 :  08:36:49 AM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
'The rules ' are joke. Have a look at what is racing and compare them with what turns up at the Goodwood Revival. I notice the Poms quietly told Horner to never return with the Irving Vincent.
 

 
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2042 Posts

Posted - 27 Dec 2019 :  08:41:16 AM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Perhaps it is time to turn 'historic racing' into CLASSIC RACING and include RETROS ? - Do it in capacity classes and by machine type ? Also reintroduce a grading system based upon machine and rider ?
 

 
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john
Forum Moderator

Victoria


3104 Posts

Posted - 27 Dec 2019 :  4:28:14 PM  Show Profile Send john a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Was the Irving turned away?
 

 
John Daley Sidecar #68 Chairman Historic Management Committee Victoria
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter."
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2042 Posts

Posted - 12 Jan 2020 :  09:28:48 AM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
At the Goodwood Revival, the guys were quietly asked not to bring the Irving Vincent again.
 

 
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2042 Posts

Posted - 12 Jan 2020 :  09:33:06 AM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
When you guys write the rules, they are always about what you DO NOT WANT racing - never about getting full grids. I've even heard Daley complain about 'trick frames'. Historically special racing frames have been the basis of many successful race bikes. So what are trying to do DETER or ENCOURAGE ?
 

 
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2042 Posts

Posted - 12 Jan 2020 :  09:36:51 AM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
You could take a different approach and write what you are trying to achieve with each race class. Then work from there, if the guys agree with your aims.
 

 
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2042 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2020 :  09:28:19 AM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
One of the things which is happening with historic racing is a lot of the bikes are actually retros. I would never stop a retro from racing. The best rules are no rules. All that needs to be done is define the race classes by the type of bike and it's engine capacity with only ONE cut-off date. A Paul Smart Replica Ducati should be able to race against the Irving Vincent. A Molnar Manx and a Walmsley G50 are both retros.
 

 
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2042 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2020 :  09:39:53 AM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 

A Paul Smart Replica Ducati should be able to race against the Irving Vincent. A Molnar Manx and a Walmsley G50 are both retros. And so are the MV3s that ran at Goodwood Revival this year.

There are only four types of motorcycles - two-strokes and three four-strokes - singles, twins and multis. Capacity classes can be combined.


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john
Forum Moderator

Victoria


3104 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2020 :  09:42:04 AM  Show Profile Send john a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Thats a good idea Al.
 

 
John Daley Sidecar #68 Chairman Historic Management Committee Victoria
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter."
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2042 Posts

Posted - 12 Feb 2020 :  5:03:58 PM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
But will we persist with 'periods' forever ? Perhaps replace the periods with groups of periods and capacity classes, for racing - 3+4 and 5+6 and allow retros to run in the appropriate group of the bikes they represent ? That way there should be full grids in every race and more efficient of track time. There could still bee trophied for the winners in individual periods. The periods would just be combined for racing purposes.
I think the periods have always been overly idealistic. It is impossible to re-create racing as it was back in the era.
 

 
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2042 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2020 :  09:38:10 AM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Here is a simple rule change which might be beneficial:

Change the capacity limit of the Period 3 500 class to 500cc plus a 15% oversize.
Then permit Indian Enfields to compete in the class. The Indian Enfield is a retro which has a disc brake in front, fuel injection and a Harris frame. It is a half-decent motorcycle. For ten grand, the kids would have a race bike which they could also ride on public roads. I would not worry about the disc brakes. If anyone pops in front of another rider and grabs the brake, they are homicidal and should be kicked out of the sport.
A similar thing could be done with the Ace Skyteam 125, which is pretty much a CB125 Honda.
 

 
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2042 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2020 :  09:43:32 AM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2042 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2020 :  09:49:05 AM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Indian Enfield Continental GT

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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2042 Posts

Posted - 20 Mar 2020 :  4:28:30 PM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
THE BL00DY SILENCE IS DEAFENING ! - So much for the Historic Management Committee.
 

 
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john
Forum Moderator

Victoria


3104 Posts

Posted - 20 Mar 2020 :  5:08:59 PM  Show Profile Send john a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
we had no comments sent to us
 

 
John Daley Sidecar #68 Chairman Historic Management Committee Victoria
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter."
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2042 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2020 :  5:09:08 PM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
If you don't make any decisions, you cannot make any mistakes ? However some things are what they are - including the fate of 'historic' racing in Australia.
- Stick your periods where the sun don't shine and let's race sensibly. Put my twin cylinder four stroke engined Seeley Commando into the same races with two-valve engined Ducatis, Guzzis and BMWs ? Then I might be interested in paying to race again - otherwise stuff it !
 

 
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acotrel
Advanced Member

Victoria


2042 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2020 :  5:11:56 PM  Show Profile Send acotrel a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
'' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter."

'
Incidentally you and yours stuffed Winton for everyone.
 

 
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john
Forum Moderator

Victoria


3104 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2020 :  7:21:15 PM  Show Profile Send john a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
What do you mean Alan? Please tell me. Thanks
 

 
John Daley Sidecar #68 Chairman Historic Management Committee Victoria
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter."
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