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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Oct 2004 : 10:31:05 AM
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Personal Comment here
When I became involved with administration over time I had a number of people say to me "Its a pity we have Championships, because now we have arguments about all sorts of issues that we did not have before"
recently the same question came up again.
Not withstanding the issues surrounding this years championships which are dealt with on another topic, I want to ask the questions.
What is the real benefit of an Australian Historic Championship Series?
Perhaps a uniform application and interpretation of the rules.
Is there a better way of allocating the event?
Queensland left their presentation for the 2004 event way past the date normally required, is there a more workable system?
Is the current system of differentiation between classes and bikes working?
Many classes are diminishing in raw numbers, should they be dropped if competitors do not turn up?
Are we establishing true Champions?
Should we raise the minimum number of machines in a Title race?
Should we run heats, rather than one race?
There seems to be support for this idea.
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
Edited by - john on 19 Oct 2004 11:00:47 AM |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2004 : 7:38:34 PM
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When the Victorian Road Race Championships are held at Winton, there is a routine of checking tyre markings, and such things as power valves on two strokes and camshafts on four strokes to ensure the competition is fair. In comparison the historic championships are a bit of a joke. there are large inequities in the simplest thing - capacities. I know some of the guys got a bit upset about the 'philosophy of historic racing', however the rules in the MA rule book apply only to championships. I suggest they should be tightened up for championship situations, but relaxed at every ordinary meeting.
I suggest the objective should be to get the racing more dependent on rider skill for championships. Personally I believe the only championships should apply to P3, P4 and P5 350s and 500s and possibly junior sidecar. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Former Member
deleted
120 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2004 : 8:42:55 PM
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So your involved in running the titles but you think there a joke, well thats just great. sorta proves the complete winton attitude. and how dumb are you to say that the rule book only refers to championships, youve gotta have log book and follow the rules at any classic meeting you silly old prick. i can see why youd only let 350's & 500's run for a title, then winton could run more bears races. somehow doubt winton will get the chance again. you are so out of touch.
of course there should be titles for all classes, its only this years titles that have been screwed a bit because of an incompetant car club trying to make money and Ross Martin & co sucking up to them. noone should make kneejerk decicions just on whats happening this year because it isnt really how it is, everyone should look to the future when things will return to normal and improve. |
Jayne |
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popeye
Level 2 Member
Western Australia
187 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2004 : 8:58:49 PM
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| roll on 2006........ |
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we may as well dance |
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Alan
Forum Moderator
Western Australia
353 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2004 : 9:25:50 PM
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Alan your comments are pretty far from the truth and not even close to what most competitors really want. We are attempting to recreate what basically happened in the past and sure some things have got a little out of kilter and over time these issues are gradually being brought back into line. Instead of making comment about low numbers in certain classes why not try to fund out the real reason numbers fluctuate. I can look back through my records and tell you exactly what the WA people think as we run a survey every two years to find out and we base our responses to the Commissions suggestions around what our members tell us.
Without wishing to insult you in any way I do suggest you take a look at what has happened since 1998, have a real read of the rule book and its intent, not what people try to get away with. A good starting point would be to read the Commission minutes from that time and maybe you will then understand where the sport is going. Dont think I am knocking this website but part of the problem we have is the lack of input from people around Australia, we are too small a group on this site contributing to get a real understanding of the current feelings amongst competitors. I suggest each Club runs a proper survey and collates the results and then place them on here so we can compare notes. A lot of people including staff at MA visit this site and they will see the results so it would be worthwhile.
Alan Sidecar 21 WA |
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David
Site Administrator
Australia
999 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2004 : 06:05:51 AM
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Alan (W),
I do not think you are knocking the site, but with the comment below, it is what I have been saying that there is not enough input from others around the country on the site.quote:
Originally posted by Alan
Dont think I am knocking this website but part of the problem we have is the lack of input from people around Australia, we are too small a group on this site contributing to get a real understanding of the current feelings amongst competitors. I suggest each Club runs a proper survey and collates the results and then place them on here so we can compare notes. A lot of people including staff at MA visit this site and they will see the results so it would be worthwhile.
We set this site up to get those comments from not only people around the country, but others that are overseas (not only Australians but other people from different countries).
People from MA do visit this site and read every topic that is placed on the site. I have had meeting with David White (CEO MA) & Brian-R Payne (General Manager MA) about some of the comments that have been placed on the site and the lack of input from MA and do understand some of the issues they face with putting public comments up, yet in the same tone can not understand why they do not comment on other items.
I would welcome the survey results from the clubs to place on this site for others to see. I know I get on average about 200 unique visitors a day to the site and over 2000 page views. We only have 84 live users in the forum (this gets reviewed every 14 days and users deleted if the have not logged on after 134 days). We are getting the traffic to view the site, but there is a lack of input from the riding community in general and they just do not seem to care about the way their sport is travelling.
Now back to the topic, the Australian Historic Championship Series should continue, but the rules across Australia needs to be cleaned up and there should not be the extra class of BEARS at what is supposed to be an Australian Historic Championship title.
There is merit in keeping the Championship going, but there needs to be more communication, organisation and truth. I have seen bugger all communication coming from the organiser which leads to the perception of no organisation and a heap of lies coming out. These are my views and hope that a heap of people get of their rears and start voicing what is clearly lacking, and that is how they would like to see their sport heading.
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Regards,
David
Webmaster & Owner of Classic Motorcycling Australia
Quote: I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted to be paid. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2004 : 07:49:35 AM
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| I dont think I have ever seen such a smash and grab of a topic before. Can we stick to the original questions please? |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2004 : 08:28:20 AM
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| Whatever shape the Historic Championships take in future, promoters will still have to pull a spectator crowd. Races where the field is completely spread around the circuit after one lap, don't do this! While you guys are thinking how you can get your next 'piece of plastic', you might also think about that - how do we make the Championships better - how do we promote them to the public - how do we get a strong spectator following? It can be done, Stan Hakin did it very well with Laverton Speedway. The riders were paid if, they started in front of the gate. In fact my mates made enough to buy a new Jawa each year - DOESN'T HAPPEN THESE DAYS! While the gate takings are low the riders will be the ones to make the meeting commercially viable. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2004 : 09:29:15 AM
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AAAAAAAALLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Can ya stick to the topic
PPPPPLLLLLEEEEAAAASSSEEEE |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Alan
Forum Moderator
Western Australia
353 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2004 : 9:08:56 PM
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OK John point taken. It is my belief that the National Championships should continue and basically in there present format. The biggest issue we have is one of numbers and all that is needed is some flexibility in the organisation. If you take last year as a case for study which is a good one as getting participation in WA from the mystical East is not easy. MA made some concessions to allow for Championship classes to take place by sensible combination of Periods, an example of this was to combine Periods 3,4 & 5 125ccs (Ultralightweight to the purist), in the one race to make this a bona fide Championship, unfortunately this rebounded as one of the competitors was a late Log Book applicant who had his first application rejected so we ended up one short for a class. This was encompassed by the competitors including the Period 3 riders who were most disadvantaged. This was I might add very poorly reported in Australian Motorcycle News who bagged the promoter and MA for not being flexible enough to allow a championship to take place.
Back to the subject, this does show that with a little thought and cooperation we can make a success of a meeting that is lacking in numbers and put on a spectatcle for the paying public.
The real issue as all of our surveys have shown is the cost of racing and of travelling to other states and for us in WA and those in the NT really suffer badly with little support normally from our LCB, I have to say normally because they have been generous this year. If we can somehow keep the cost down particularly for those travelling then that would help all round.
I could go on for hours but I will add more later after the above has been digested.
Maybe Jayne has something constructive to add.
Alan Sidecar 21 WA |
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trumpybob
Level 2 Member
New South Wales
29 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2004 : 9:48:07 PM
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| Hello all, this is my first post but as I'm sure many others do I've been reading with interest your comments. Firstly in regard to the championships I believe if there were none it would damage the credibility of classic racing, we would also lose a benchmark that many of us use in our efforts to improve. As far as race attendances go are we trying to attract competitors or spectators? its possible that one will bring the other.As a competitor in the period 3 unlimited class for the last 14 years with the odd foray into moderns, post classic and bears I feel Qualified to venture an opinion, so here goes. Nothing deters competitors more than inconsistency in rules, I speak of course about eligibility. Make a rule, stick to it, police it fairly and every one can build/budget for it knowing that what ever they have to do will be good for years of racing. I know of many good bikes that have been put away because of the cost of modifying them to suit rule changes. I'm sure that if these people had confidence that the rules would not change again they would feel the mods worthwhile. there, thats my two bobs worth,cheers! |
Racing is everything,the rest of the time is just waiting |
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