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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Nov 2002 : 6:07:22 PM
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I am getting lots of questions about how the eras were established.
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Allan
Site Moderator
National
599 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2002 : 08:02:25 AM
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 see Rob Dark he is the one who started PCA Vic best run Post classic race orginzed races in his time it's a pitty that he went to Qld he was on the |
Allan Greening |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2002 : 11:21:08 AM
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Thanks,How do we track him down?
PS can you bring that Triton to the rideday on 1Dec. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Allan
Site Moderator
National
599 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2002 : 11:54:12 AM
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Also Trever Avent ? may be able to help with PCA and why as to my triton 500 and the 750 i cannot ride due to a f### righ hand carn't use front brake anymore |
Allan Greening |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2002 : 04:09:00 AM
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I think the cut-off date for P2 was set at about 1948, so the era represents all either rigid frame or girder fork bikes. P3 cutoff date was set at 1962 as that was the last year the factory produced Manx Nortons, It heralded the end of the 'real classic era'. The bikes in this era have typically rear suspension and tele forks and drum brakes. The most competitive bike in this era was the Henderson Maychless and the 4 cylinder Honda of Carruthers. The matchless had a titanium rod and suspected ran nitro. (Quite a few guys ran nitro (in the 60s Horsman ran it in a T250 Suzuki) P3 cutoff date was set at 1972 because this is the year before the Z900 Kawasaki came out and blitzed every thing, it is also the year before the reed valved RD350 Yamaha came out. Bikes in this era had disc or drum front brakes, only one had a rear disc. During this period severa Triumph Bonnevilles were competitive (the Ken Blake/Jesser Triumph ran 15% nitro, and John Collins/Peter Allen were good on the Mussett Triumphs, Les Ayton and Keith Ashmore were also very hard to beat. (personally I wasn't hard to beat, they all seemed faster). The P3 racing these days is nothing like it was in the era. I never saw a 750 Honda my 500 Triumph couln't absolutely destroy, except for the Bill Patterson Daytona CR750 with Tony Cacciotti on it. Unfortunately this cut-off date excludes the 850 Commando engine which everyone uses in P3 and P4 unlimited.
P5 cutoff date was set at 1979 to prevent use of exhaust port controlled two strokes, and four valve per cylinder GS1100 Suzukis, fortunately(?) the rules have changed, and we actually have a bike which can compete with P3 and P4 two strokes. In the era a 350 Yamaha could crap on anything else at Winton. In fact Kenny Blake used to leave Jack Walter's TZ750 at home and only bring TZ250 and TZ350, and still win everything. At the time Toombs and Atlee, Hansfor and Sayle were riding H2R Kawasakis and John Warrian and Laurie Barnard, Goose Muir and Others Rode TZ750s. There are virtually no 'fast' bikes left to run in P5, all the serious stuff has gone.
The era thing is good, it runs 'period' bikes together, however if you want to achieve racing as it really was in the era - forget it, it's impossible to stop 'cheating', and why would you want to anyway? Rex's Hondas are capable of providing good entertainment, it's a matter of getting good competition for them. I suggest young Stuart on the GS1100 is a good start.
Personally I don't have a problem with cutoff dates, however the oversize engines are a problem, I just don't believe we should 'go backwards and incur the cost of restoring them back to manufacturers spec. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2002 : 09:00:55 AM
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| The point has been made to me that the engines are not oversized, the rules provide up to 1300cc capacity and so they bore them to suit the rules. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Allan
Site Moderator
National
599 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2002 : 10:26:58 AM
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the old story are they just overbored? and /or stroked? using cb900 cranks was the crank and pistons around in pre 1972 want to know how to do it see Side car racing assc of Vic's news letter it was in it a few years ago |
Allan Greening |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2002 : 4:23:33 PM
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The big Honda engines are certainly within the rules. Nothing stops anyone from buying a longer stroke Nourish shaft for a Norton or Triumph. You just probably can't physically fit them into the cases, and the cases wouldn't survive the experience anyway.
Changing the rules to make engines come back to manufacturer's original capacity is a good solution however I don't see why Rex and the ten or so other riders should be penalised, we should have got the rules right in the first place. The cost of changing back is quite large, and we will lose a lot of good, fast bikes.
The suggestion I made about Formula Historic BEARS, and Formula Historic Japanese, would vary the competition and still provide for the big Hondas, they will just have to race against Stuart with the petrol powered GS1100, and possibly a few Z900s. The British bikes would race each other in capacity classes only (not periods).
Let's keep the rules the way they are and change the racing categories and capacity classes to make competitive bikes compete against each other.
The TR3s on alcohol can race against other Jap 350s such as TZ350 and CB72 (they get their wins against 7R AJSs and 40M Manxes). (Wonder how Rob Hinton feels about that?) |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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