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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Jul 2003 : 1:23:25 PM
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I would like to float an idea. I've noticed a couple of recent postings on this subject, one by John, and another by Steve. I don't know what Steve has proposed as rules/format for this new class (in Queensland?).
I suggest:
Historic Superbikes - a class for P3, P4,P5, P6 (up to 1985) eligible racing motorcycles of over 750 cc capacity, up to 1150cc maximum capacity (including rebores). Alcohol fuel not permitted in post 1972 machines. Machines from different periods may compete in the same event.
Comment:
Should allow the situation where P3 Vincents and Harleys, oversize P4 CB750s,P5 Z900s and TZ750s, and P6 GS1100s and Harley Sportsters can race together.
If anyone else has similar or different ideas - let's hear them. Also we need agreement on the class name, I believe 'superbikes' were a 1970s concept.
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Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2003 : 9:41:03 PM
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| Steve what are the bones of your idea that you have in mind. the HMRAV may be able to assist in Vic. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2003 : 5:44:49 PM
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| Steve, I take your point about the original engine in the original frame (modified), that's a good idea. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2003 : 10:19:26 PM
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| what are your suggested rules though. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2003 : 9:42:13 PM
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| Scott, I seem to remember that the capacity limit was 1000cc for the 70s Superbikes. Are you suggesting that as the upper limit? Are you allowing pre 72 bikes to run alcohol? I remember there was a restriction on carby size - (as you said), what was it? Perhaps we need to talk to Mick Hone? I think he's still got Robbie Phillis's old bike. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2003 : 09:42:57 AM
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I believe Stuart Loly's GSX1100 has the big bore kit - seems to change direction alright. Scott's comment about 'the bike represented' is a bit significant. In the car racing world, log books are used for cars which actually have a history - were actually raced back then. In Group N - Touring Cars up to 1972, you are permitted to build a car from a body shell, but it's supposed to be a replica of something raced back then.
The point is a lot of (particularly P4/P5) bikes don't look anything like what was raced back then. Rex's bikes are AMA style racers which came out in the seventies (P5), not the sixties (P4). And the same goes for a lot of others.
I suggest we need to look a bit closer at eligibility rules, and in particular the STYLE of bike we are racing.
Both P4 and P5 historic races don't look like anything I ever competed in, back then - even C Grade Allpowers. I raced from mid sixties to early eighties. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2003 : 11:07:36 AM
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I don't think a protest about the T-rex bikes on eligibility would stand up. The rules don't set an upper capacity limit for P4 Unlimited, and the use of CB900 cranks probably doesn't get a mention anyway.
If you are suggesting historic racing should be 'as it was in the era', forget it! In 1972 the big bore CB750s used Honda 450 pistons which brought them to about 830cc.
My 500 cc Triumph used to absolutely cr*p on fairly standard CB750s, a good 830 was a problem. H2 Kawasakis with chambers beat me regularly, but the ones with standard pipes, I could compete with. Later RD350s with chambers were a problem. Z900s were always faster than I was.
Rex's bikes would have blown everything to the weeds, if they'd been around back then.
I like the T-rex Hondas. I think they're good for historic racing, but let's get them some real competition. Stuart Loly has beaten them a few times, but I suggest when they compete in 'cross-period' races, it's their turn to lose. When they are in P4 races they win nearly every time. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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steve
Level 2 Member
Queensland
86 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2003 : 8:06:26 PM
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I HAVE STARTED A 750CC TOPIC TO COVER THIS ISSUE SEPARATELY moderator
Hi All
Wasn't there a issue with a T-Rex Honda at Bathurst a couple of years ago!! when someone had to give all the money back!! all dealing with the frame!! Everyone knew it wasn't correct for the era, It seems like it been happening in period 4 for sometime. I allways throught it had to look like what was raced in the era!! & many people know a good British or Italian 500/650-750cc bikes would give any of the Honda's in the era, a run for their money!!
If you want to spend lots of money on a over 750cc class race bike maybe it should run with the big over 750cc Period 5 bikes it would be better racing all round. Under 750 would bring back the old Twins again!! where they won't bring them back with 30 overbored Honda on the grid! I'm sure if the 5% over what it came out at, it would bring lots of the old stuff out again which in turn makes it better for the spectator. When & if is the rule about the 750cc class come in to effect?? It just seems like grids are down accross OZ in all periods, doesn't this tell MA that they are going in the wrong direction over the last 10 or so years??
Steve
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Edited by - john on 17 Jul 2003 8:11:26 PM |
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Former Member
deleted
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27 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2003 : 9:31:50 PM
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| I am building a replica of the wes cooley GS1000s for period 5 and after reading the rule book I am still in the dark re: discs and swingarms. If I use later model wheels can I use the appropriate discs or do I have to use the std (80 model)rotors? can I run calipers of a different manufacturer of the period? If I use a later model that has shocker mounts welded on is this legal, I have a picture of a superbike from the era with an aluminuim swingarm, any input appreciated. |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2003 : 10:13:02 PM
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In car racing, vehicles up to 1989 are now being catered for at historic meetings. I've heard 'period 6' mentioned at some bike meetings.
Isn't it about time we developed the rules for historic bikes up to 1989?
In the past we delayed allowing P5 to race at most meetings, the result is that noone seems to have an H2R, TZ750, TR500 (watercooled), RG500.
How many more bikes of historical importance do we have to lose, before we wake up that time moves on and the cutoff date must be adjusted, along with the rules? |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2003 : 10:15:33 PM
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| If some of you guys would like to start an Historic Superbikes Association, I wouldn't mind being a member. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2003 : 10:48:15 AM
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| Roger, why not attend a Historic Management Committee meeting and discuss the issue directly with the committee. That why you may get the right advice quickly and secondary questions answerted on the spot. Ring me on 03 9888 5297 for details |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2003 : 11:27:41 AM
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Just a note about a possible Historic Superbike Association. I hate to mention car racing on this forum, but it's relevant this time.
The guys who wanted to race HQ Holdens set up a HQ Association, and wrote their own rules. The class is intended as a beginners class. What it ended up as was effectively a class for slow Historic Group N cars, except that a simple thing like the advertising they allowed excludes them from Group N.
So what I am saying is the first thing any Historic Superbike Association should do is write the rules for Period 6, and get them into the MA rule book.
The other thing is to ensure that bikes prior to 1979 conform to the current eligibilty rules, under the new association's rules.
So is there anyone out there, who wants to do the administration - run a newsletter and mailing list? |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2003 : 8:25:33 PM
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Scott,
Had a look at the pic of your Suzuki on the gallery page - looks fantastic! Let's hope a few more of the guys build the same sort of thing - can only make historic racing better. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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