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Allan
Site Moderator
National
599 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Jul 2003 : 09:59:30 AM
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Cams has approved cart racing for B/foard when a few mods are done 'LIKE A CONCRETE WALL BETWEEN UPPER AND LOWER STRAIGHS" O'Well where do motorcycle's race now no PI,B/Ford!,Calder, will winton be next?
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Allan Greening |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2003 : 7:48:36 PM
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Prepare to meet thy DOOM !! The end is nigh.
ALLAN ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT CAMS AT BROADFORD OR TAKING AN OPPORTUNITY TO SELF PROMOTE PERHPAS ANOTHER TOPIC WOULD BE MORE SUITABLE - MODERATOR
Bob Jane said (in the mid 70s) that the only motorcycle racing to be held at Calder would be run by Col Murray and associates. How many bike meetings have been held there in the last twenty years?
Recently a truck meeting was held there, managed by Winton Motor Raceway Pty Ltd.
Face It, if we can't turn a dollar with bike meetings we will be OUT!
Winton Motor Raceway (and Winton Motor Raceway Pty Ltd)is owned by Benalla Auto Club (and its partner, Winton Motorcycle Club). Where are you all? Where is your support? If you want motorcycling to continue at Winton, we need your help. Participate in our ride days. The next one is on 15th November 2003, costs $120. If we don't turn a dollar soon, the whole thing will possibly collapse as Allan said! Sadly, It could be so good!!
Winton Motorcycle Club has about 45 members, this is set to rise dramatically when we get our grass track/motocross circuit into action, but we need more road racers.
To Join ring (03) 5766 4235 |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2003 : 11:20:54 AM
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| The truth is that the fence is needed to stop the sidecars coming down off the top and then Qantas will use the top straight as an alternative to Tulla when the fog rolls in. MV will make heaps with every landing so we should all welcome the opportunity to have an income stream that will develop the circiut. By the way, once the fence is in and the planes are landing the new hangers will exclude any cahnce for solos to attend . So whilst the circuit will be beautiful and sidecar safe, solos will not be able to use it. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2003 : 7:43:44 PM
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Surely another group paying track hire can only help make Broadford viable? What difference does it make if the auto has two, three or four wheels, it's all motorsport. Personally I look at sidecars, racing cars, and go-karts with the same distaste. That doesn't mean I wouldn't help them race.
I've acted as scrutineer for both the racing cars and bikes at Winton on several occasions. Without the car guys we wouldn't have a circuit.
I suggest the safety issues at Broadford need to be rationalised, so that the owners (us) get maximum return and usage. If the concrete wall (proposed ?) is dangerous to solos, we'll need to find a way of making it safe. The design of Broadford has been criticised by people who should know something about track safety. Isn't it about time some experts were consulted and decisions made? |
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matcho mick
Advanced Member
New South Wales
570 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2003 : 10:22:11 PM
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geezas,if running off on the top straight,managing to miss the bloody big boulders,you havn't wipe off sufficient speed and manage somehow staying upright to nail someone on the bottom (main) straight,i don't think a concrete dividing strips gunna cause too much concern,like we aim ourselves at concrete either end at Oran park,and thats right on the trackside!,don't hear too many complaining about that?,or is it because proposese are 4 wheeled?(rather they spent concrete money in the pits where it belongs,my 2 bobs worth,mick |
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matcho mick
Advanced Member
New South Wales
570 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2003 : 10:52:36 PM
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oops,i spoke too soon!,no more Oran Pk till "they" organise air fences,seems someone noticed the trackside furniture,(ie the concrete walls)deemed them unsafe?,ah progress!,Mick |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2003 : 6:05:32 PM
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Mick,
All it takes is a simple risk assessment to reveal the hazards in their true light. Anyone with half a brain wouldn't insure motorcycle racers on many of our circuits.
MA was told about Broadford safety when it was still in the planning stage. |
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matcho mick
Advanced Member
New South Wales
570 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2003 : 11:02:23 PM
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| how come these half minded simple risk assessments have taken so long to emerge?,(oran parks been around a long time),what part of the equation has changed?, the tracks havn't,the participants,& methods of use havn't,i guess the throttle works both ways no longer replies?,hey while on OP,back in the early 80's Rob Mclnea (i think,memories sus!) came out to do swan series,some bright spark in the pits when asked which way the track went sent him out clockwise,(snigger snigger),quoted as liking the track,but wasn't too keen on the wall at end of the staight,some things never change eh?,mick |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2003 : 09:37:23 AM
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Mick, a risk assessment is definitely simple minded. There's nothing complex about it. It's just that a lot of the guys running motorsport have never actually raced, they stand outside the fence and call the shots.
CAMS has just brought out a risk assessment document for race circuits - I've seen it and it's a bit mediocre. They still don't specify what constitutes an air bag, or a sand trap. They don't know anything about how to calculate run off tangents and velocities.
When they brought out that doc. they took the whole world on their shoulders. If someone gets killed they'll defend it's use in court.
The document is a good place to start writing an Australian Standard - a public document, which we can all refer to with safety! |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2003 : 4:36:46 PM
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Allan, I am with Macho here.
All the words in the world will not mean anything if they are not sent in the right direction. What steps could we all take in what direction to get the issue actioned appropriately, rather than just whistling around our workshop. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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matcho mick
Advanced Member
New South Wales
570 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2003 : 7:40:07 PM
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| how about the riders sort out safety issues?,they always had riders representitives in GP's o/seas concerned with all aspects of safety/design imputs,maybe thats the direction to go?,a forum of rider/drivers(s/c)to implement/advocate on any dangerous track sections,reporting to the powers that be?,(MA)justa thought,Mick |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2003 : 9:08:18 PM
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John and Mick,
The debate (power struggle?) between CAMS and AAA, has resulted in some action being taken to centre risk assessment procedures in public documents. There will be a survey from a govt body in the next few weeks seeking expressions of interest. MA and CAMS will be the first consulted. So it's not really a case of whistling in the dark.
I suggest we also need some specs for airbags, sand traps, run off tangents, track surfaces. Then we'll all be talking about the same thing, particularly if there is a fatal accident, and we end up in court. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2003 : 10:10:06 AM
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| Why continue to frighten everybody over deaths Alan. People have been dying from time to time, I think you are unnecessarliy worrying people with some of the claims about liability. I dont think anybody knows where the new laws place responsibility.But perhaps collectively this area needs investigation before we all panic and stay in bed. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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matcho mick
Advanced Member
New South Wales
570 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2003 : 10:32:22 PM
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| i guess it's too late to go back to basics,(throttle works both ways?)i have a feeling this insurance/safety thingy isn't going away,lets get stuck in ,race yer tits off while we still can!!mick |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2003 : 07:56:42 AM
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John, It's not a matter of being frightened by fatalities. Promoters like Winton have been moving steadily towards implementing systems which guide their risk management. They will be able to prove that 'what should have been done, has been done'.
I don't think there is much that the individual motorcyclist can do at the moment. However I believe what will come out of the CAMS/AAA debate will result in reduced insurance premiums, and circuits which are relatively safer.
I wasn't trying to put a scare up anyone when I mentioned potential manslaughter charges, but I wouldn't have liked to be in CAMSs or Ron Walker's shoes when the tracky got killed. The law is changing to take account of gross negligence. Perhaps not doing our risk assessments constitutes 'gross negligence'?
I believe that prior to the GP being run at Albert Park, these days the Police, SES, CAMS, Workcover and the promoter have a joint meeting, the main topic is RISK MANAGEMENT!
Best Regards, |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2003 : 08:00:13 AM
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| Mick, You're right 'the throttle turns both ways'! Doesn't stop your wife and kids from suing a promoter though! |
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matcho mick
Advanced Member
New South Wales
570 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2003 : 9:39:49 PM
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| ha!,when the kids sort out who gets the velo & who gets the beezer,missus is going to have a huge garage sale, (after the party)so no worries there Alan?,Mick |
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