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Former Member
deleted
39 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Jul 2003 : 10:29:55 PM
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I am a bit slow to anger, and it takes me a lot before I get on my soapbox and give anyone a serve, but I feel I must. Iwill stress that these are my own personal views and readers may either agree with or discard them at their pleasure.
I cannot believe the negativity of some members of this website. I think that most people come here because they love Classic Motorcycle Racing, be it Period 3, 4 or indeed 5.
There is one particular member who I won't name, who is seemingly of the opinion that all people who race 2 strokes are cheats......HOW ABSURD!!!! He also seems to have an "Axe to Grind" with Classic racing as a whole. I have been racing at different levels and in both Classic Racing and a number of ARRC classes since 1984, and in that time I have only come across a couple of blokes who deliberately cheated to gain a unfair advantage over their rivals. And, I do have to say that all of these cheats were actually riding 4 strokes.
As much as this person seems to hate it, 2 strokes have as much of a place in Classic Racing as do Manx Nortons, Seely G50 AJS A7Rs etc. As long as a machine is built to comply with current regulations then as far as I am concerned It has as much right to be out there as anything else.
Also this person delights in spreading "Doom and Gloom" stories on how expensive Classic racing is. He blathers on for all potential newcomers to see that you can not be competitive for under $25000, and that anything under $5000 would be dangerous. My answer in short, is GARBAGE!!!!! I have won races on machines that cost less than $1000. I certainly don't take risks with my own safety, nor do I wthink that any competitor in Australia would knowingly race a substandard bike. My Yamaha TA125 which Victorian Peter Scott rides for me is a regular top 3 finisher at meetings such as the Australian Championships and the Southern Classic, owes me a grand total of $2000.
Indeed this apparently jaded gentleman once advised me to give up Classic bikes, and go modern 125cc GP racing, (he didn't know that I had already sent a number of years doing just that). What sort of advice is that for someone to post on a Classic Racing website. I find comments like that counter productive to attracting new people to our sport.
Coupled to this he is of the opinion that if you cannot win, then it is not worth entering a race, especially if your bike is not "Super" competitive. The answer is that not every one wants to win everything they enter. The fun is, for me at least, just being involved.
If we fill the pages of websites such as this one with, what to me appear to be falsehoods about the classic racing scene, then we are doing a disservice to newcomers to the sport, and indeed, we will be doing ourselves no favours as we will be scaring possible future competitors away from, what is in my opinion still a vibrant and exciting form of motorcycle racing.
Regards,
John Swensen
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2003 : 09:34:29 AM
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John, I don't know if it is me you are referring to, but a few points.
A friend of mine won the P3 Unlimited Championship a few times - he spent more on historic racing than he ever spent when he sponsored his son on a superbike (and the guy was very competitive).
In modern GP races I believe the two strokes are half the capacity of the four strokes - why is that?
In every other type of motor racing extreme care is taken to ensure that 'cheating' doecn't occur, and the competition is 'fair'. In one class of gokart racing jet changes, chamber dimensions, port timing, fuel are controlled. The car guys go spare over ineligibility.
Historic bike racing could do well with a bit more 'fairness'. As for being competitive - noone goes there just to look pretty. I think you'll find there are a lot of guys who stay away because their bikes just can't compete with thinly disguised superbikes.
As for racing two strokes - they are extremely easy to get going very fast, however they should either be handicapped on capacity when running against four strokes, or run in separate races. |
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Former Member
deleted
39 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2003 : 10:08:40 AM
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I see your point Alan, I really believe that the old FIM Formula classes are the way to go. This does away with Capacity based classes, and pits bikes of different capacities together on a performance based level.
When I first started racing, F1, F2, and to a lesser degree, F3 Ruled the roost, and there were a myriad of bikes racing within these classes. I think that it would level the playing field for everyone. ie Lets say, Yamaha TA125 GP bike, against 250 4 stroke Ducatis, or TR3 Yamahas against the Big Hondas.
I do very much agree with you about the Big K&W type Hondas. I can still remember when the biggest "Big Bore" kit that was available for the Hondas was 810cc.
Regards,
John Swensen |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2003 : 5:29:43 PM
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John, I'm glad you can see what I'm getting at. I think it would be really good if we had the old Lightweight, Junior and Senior classes for at least P3 and P4 combined.
That beautiful Spondon framed 250 Ducati which Daryl runs in Vic would be great in a race against TA125s and Suzuki Stingers, you could actually slipstream and dice wheel to wheel.
A while back I talked to John Daley about the 'Senior' (500cc four stroke class). HMRAV seemed to think it was a stupid idea. But think of a race with Manxes, G50s, Seeley G50s, Yamaha SR500s, and 250cc Two strokes up to say 1979. You could really have a good time in that class!
Realistically 350cc Yamahas of about mid seventies should run with the Unlimited class. Blakey used to leave the TZ750 at home when he went to Winton. The TZ350 was quite quick enough.
Personally I love 250cc two stroke races, but I love riding my Seeley Norton 850 more, even though it'll never be competitive as long as my *rse points downward. When you ride it you can feel the hair growing on your chest. Two strokes are definitely faster, and probably handle and stop better, but the feeling just isn't there. Actually I own a TZ350G but I've never raced it. I did race a Suzuki T250 years ago (on alky). Ian Whitehead fron Hartwell bought it and won 23 races and five championships with it. He copied the porting from motor to motor. I actually blew off a good TZ350 with it one day, years ago.
I just think we can do this historic racing thing a bit better than we are at present.
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Former Member
deleted
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6 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2003 : 12:45:18 PM
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Since youve been racing since 1984 , I was wondering if you would know a chap who was involved in side car and motorcycle racing around 81 onwards? His name is Robert Woods and he was from around the north side of Sydney? Thanks |
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matcho mick
Advanced Member
New South Wales
570 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2003 : 12:07:04 AM
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Hi L ,theres a Rob Woods at Western m/cycles Penrith(47331733),cheers Mick |
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Former Member
deleted
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6 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2003 : 09:03:35 AM
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You're a God Send Mick Thankyou so much. |
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Chris L
Level 1 Member
Victoria
12 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2003 : 8:46:12 PM
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| Sidecar 81 your 1st entry is spot on! Anybody who spends 1000's of dollars to go classic racing and then complains because they don't win (and heaven forbid that riding ability has got anything to do with it) should get a life. I know of HEAPS of people that race just for the pure fun and socialising. These people spend enough to keep their bikes reliable and have not taken a trophy home for years. These same people are the same ones that show up every time to race, not ramble on about how good they were years ago when no-one can actually remember them racing. That is what classic racing is all about. I was at the very first southern classic and historic winton (as a kid) and have continually raced classic solo's and outfits since 1986 so that must count for something. People who do not race, have no intention of racing and do nothing constructive towards supporting classic racing exept for typing on a computer should find a new hobby. Cheers. |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2003 : 7:43:42 PM
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Chris,
How about starting a class for 500cc four stroke singles of any era? I'll come along and have a ride and we'll see how long you think it's 'just for the fun of being there'. (Have a ride yourself).
Best Regards,
Alan Cotterell |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2003 : 8:17:44 PM
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Chris,
I'm not having a shot at you, so please don't take this the wrong way. I am actually doing something constructive for historic racing. I've been working in the Winton office for the past few months (couple of days per week) getting the Australian Historic Motorfest going for October. Your turn will probably come next year, when at least one historic bike meeting will be held.
You can also do something constructive. Would you ask whoever cut the locks off the gates at Winton to apologise. He's got someone offside who we need helping us. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Former Member
deleted
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4 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2003 : 11:50:11 AM
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Alan, if you are refering to the locked gate at the Australian Championships at Winton, I can claim responsibility for cutting the locks off. However, if you are waiting for an apology you'll be waiting a long time. HMRAV booked the circuit from 7am and no one from Winton was there to open the gate. We had hundreds of people needing to get in to start the biggest race meeting of the year and the circuit owners refused to co-operate even to the extent of refusing to open the office until 8am even though an employee was standing at the door. The management at Winton has a long history of treating us as crap and no amount of making excuses will change that
David Large |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2003 : 12:16:40 AM
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David, AS I understand it you were asked what time you wanted the gates opened, and that's the time a staff member turned up to open the gates.
One of the big issues confronting all the circuits is public liability. When you cut the locks off and enter illegally, what do you think is going to happen, if someone has an accident.
The Economic Tort Legislation has just been implemented to limit the amount that circuit owners can be sued. It hasn't been tested in court yet! How do you think it would go if the first accident is due to total lack of control on the circuit premises?
When you deal with Winton I suggest you keep the Auto Club Committee on-side, I think you'll find they don't really care if your meeting is the biggest in the galaxy, when you put their very existence at risk. That circuit is the only one in Australia solely owned by club members. It is commercially viable at present, no thanks to certain members of the local community,and your actions could assist them in their destructive quest.
I note you think the Winton management treat you as 'crap', does the same thing go for Phillip Island? Why aren't HMRAV racing there? The latest news release is that AVESCO have taken the V8s away from there, and the car guys don't really want to race there. Seems PI is destined to become a motorcycle circuit only. What are you guys going to do to take advantage of this opportunity? |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2003 : 10:01:09 AM
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Listen everybody I think there are times when we need to settle down publically and step back. There are issues from all parties that are agreeable and some that are not. If you keep challenging people publicaly, the chance of a resolution is diminished.
Sometimes if you want some info Alan, use the phone. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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David
Site Administrator
Australia
999 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2003 : 10:09:55 AM
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How can this be so? If you do challenge someone publicly, then I believe that if they do not respond, then they are showing that they haven't got the balls to inform the public on what is going on.quote:
Originally posted by john
If you keep challenging people publicaly, the chance of a resolution is diminished. Sometimes if you want some info Alan, use the phone.
As for using the phone, you can leave messages and they will not return the call, or they refuse to take your call as what I have had happen.
So I would say in a new society of open and transparent organisations, then to openly discuss issues on a forum like You must be logged in to see this link. is valid.
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Regards,
David
Webmaster & Owner of Classic Motorcycling Australia
Quote: I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted to be paid. |
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Former Member
deleted
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4 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2003 : 10:32:18 PM
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Alan, you weren't involved in running the meeting, you have been fed the wrong information. I made a special trip up to Winton to talk to the management to make sure everything was in order well before the race meeting. As only the excess length of chain was cut the lock and chain could still be used so no damage was done.When I make an agreement with someone I expect that person to honour that agreement.
Perhaps when you start running race meetings you will be able to do a better job. Dave Large |
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matcho mick
Advanced Member
New South Wales
570 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2003 : 12:15:38 AM
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hmmmm,i remember early sthrn classic meeting the que was down & out around the corner,no key for the main gate,but "they" managed to open the side gate to get us in,Kenny"s green horror (truck)didn't fit under the boom,so they had to wait a little longer,organised?hmmm,mick
ps onya Dave |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2003 : 09:19:07 AM
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Dave, I accept your comment on running meetings and I can see both sides of this issue. I suggest it would be good, if you could have a quiet chat with Winton management sometime. I think this thing is going to come back to haunt us for a long time if it's not sorted.
Best Regards, |
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