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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Mar 2004 : 12:39:40 PM
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"When you start encouraging guys to bring out P5 sidecars, TZ750s like Vince Genovas oldie, you might start getting decent fields. Personally I believe any sidecar which isn't a worm is historic. Why don't you start running races based on machine type, instead of 'year'? Say three groups - up to 73 and up to 85 unlimited sidecar, and up to 73 Junior sidecar(650cc limit for 4 strokes, and 500cc for 2 strokes). In other words - how about really pirating the moderns for participants in historic events? There are plenty of old 'kneelers' about. The only bikes excluded would be the modern worms. Alan Cotheral "
This is worth a thought. The HMRAV has actually been encouraging P5 outfits along and your thoughts about the later bikes is worthy of more thought , Thanks
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2004 : 10:20:32 AM
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Well, the point is - pre 1973 bikes are allowed to run alcohol. This should make a CB750 (1100) competitive with a lot of later bikes. The fact is that the CB750(1100) would also be eligible for P4 historic championships, and this would encourage people to continue with them. The big advantage would be that a lot of later 'kneelers' would get a run with the historics, and this would bolster up the fields.
The P5 event could cater for anything that is not a 'worm'. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2004 : 10:24:41 AM
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| That sidecar Neville Lush runs, surely that is historic, yet he runs with the moderns because it has a fairly late motor. What you would end up with, with P5, would be a 15 year old sidecar race. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2004 : 1:53:53 PM
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| Alan, your entry is confusing. You started to talk about P5 outfits which the HMRAV has been trying to attract, the hot CB100 do enter everything now and do beat moderns, but we were talking about attracting P5 machines. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2004 : 7:35:25 PM
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At present P5 and moderns aren't well represented in historic events, to my knowledge. When you start running bikes with four valve 1100cc motors you are sure to start to discourage the CB750 (1100) P4 outfits. The thing is most of the CB750(1100)s (on alcohol) should be competitive with fairly modern kneelers.
The only argument I can see anyone having against running 'modern' kneelers in historic events, is that what has won easily in the past (cb750(1100)s) won't find it so easy.
Let's not kid ourselves about historic sidecar races- if Lindsay Urquardt's recent BMW attempt has failed to make an impression on the Hondas, then nothing except a hot H2 Kawasaki has got a hope. Might as well be honest and run modern kneelers!
I suggest the demise of the unlimited historic sidecar has a lot to do with the difficulty of finding something really competitive against the OS hondas.
The guys won't ride if they haven't got a chance - ASK LINDSAY!
So either reduce their capacity or let the guys run something that CAN compete. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2004 : 7:37:40 PM
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| I suggest the concept of 'periods' should still apply to sidecars for championship events. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2004 : 11:19:41 AM
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| We have been down that path and decided it will not work.Thats why we are trying to promote the 650cc Post Classic Junior class fore sidecars. P5 outfits are being hunted down and invited so its happenning now man!! |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2004 : 5:00:33 PM
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| Good one John! I'd only suggest one thing, and that's - if you have to combine the sidecar classes to get enough to run events, still have a trophy for each class. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Former Member
deleted
174 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2004 : 10:10:31 AM
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Should be good at the Vic Titles with 3-4 Period 5 chairs entered.
Im bustin my balls to make sure my outfit is right for it.
Would this be a silly suggestion I wonder!
Could a 2 class's be set up to combine say F2 and Period 5 outfits and another for period 3-4.
The speed difference between 5 and 3 is a major concern so It would be an option to look at this in the near future.
Although some period 4 pilots get their outfits movin along at a rapid rate.
But for the moment the priority is getting the 5s back on the track and filling grids with all eras.
Where are these outfits now.
Cheers
Neill
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Its not what you ride,Its how fast you ride it!!! |
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popeye
Level 2 Member
Western Australia
187 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2004 : 3:19:19 PM
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| Is there a pre 1972 motorcycle motor ($$$$$Vincents excepted) that could be developed to compete with the overbored Honda's, period 5 has a few likely candidates, I dont really understand the dynamics of an outfit well enough to know what would or wouldn't work in P4, but my guess is a minimum of about 125-130 horses needed to be competitive, but getting it delivered in a useful manner has me scratching my head, hopefully one of you jokers can explain it on the weekend. |
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we may as well dance |
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Former Member
deleted
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2 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2004 : 10:31:10 PM
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| My modern sidecar is about '93 build I think Alan.Quite a bit older than the posty ones I used to try an beat at Historic racing. I am running a fuel injected R1 in it. Probably makes a few more HP than a honda 1200 four on alky,but the whole bike is heavier. Have you ever wondered why there is not many postys about now? Neville |
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Former Member
deleted
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26 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2004 : 07:53:44 AM
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| Posties were badly regulated and before you knew it, people were spending $7000 on old honda 4's getting them up to 1200cc.I left posties after being beaten by a top runner using Nitro-Methane. |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2004 : 08:48:49 AM
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| Popeye, I I suggest the only pre 73 motor which would beat an overbored CB750 would be a H2 Kawasaki on alcohol. Trouble is reliability and cylinder wear becomes a large factor. The other way to go would be to copy Denny McCormacks efforts and graft another cylinder onto an H1 - at least the parts are cheaper and more readily available. The other thing is that when you play with two strokes on alky, getting them lean enough, without destroying them, is a problem! We recently broke a rod in my brother's H2 on speedway, and drove a piston down onto the crank. Mind you it WAS 2 seconds a lap faster than the 'moderns'. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Former Member
deleted
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2 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2004 : 12:40:16 PM
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| The engine is not the problem.My H2 is strong etc and easily quick enough. It is the handling/brakes etc that is the issue.BTW Why the obsession with getting them "lean enough".Thats why they crap themselves,hp is easily attainable without melting the piston. |
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popeye
Level 2 Member
Western Australia
187 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2004 : 2:58:10 PM
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pity,
I'm pretty much committed to 4 bangers as the guy I work part time for has more of that gear to scrounge through, the bucket is the only screamer in the shed.
The only motor I have sitting around is a 76 GL1000 which has interesting possibilities if the motor can be turned round and a chain run off the countershaft, all it would need is 32/36 Weber, barnett clutch and a more open exhaust to run good power without overstressing things, downside is it would not be an overly lightweight package using P5 period materials and at best be a good training platform and midfield runner.
feel free to shoot the daylights out of that theory chaps, as it wont eventuate without input from people who know how to create an outfit or an honest chance of being a fun outfit. |
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we may as well dance |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2004 : 9:44:05 PM
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| popeye, ignore the big bore Hondas and go for something in the middle of the field. You wont go broke but you will have fun. The HMRAV is pushing for the re introduction of the Post Classic 650 cc sidecar so the big bore isue will not apply. there are a few being developed, I am building a CB750 sleeved back to a 650 to lend to people. Some are looking at XS650 Yamaha's. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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popeye
Level 2 Member
Western Australia
187 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2004 : 10:10:48 PM
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| sold my CB650 about 6 years ago but there are a couple of interesting motors lying around over here, still waiting for word on a couple of XS650 motors that may be coming up over here soon, scream if you are still interested. |
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we may as well dance |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2004 : 5:35:10 PM
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| yes |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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popeye
Level 2 Member
Western Australia
187 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2004 : 7:19:40 PM
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| You might have to wait in line if they are pre-74 models, I had Ron Hellyer stroll into the shop yesterday and ask if there were any going, seems he has got the bug to do up a bike and go for a ride again, he was the riding Captain of the Mount Gambier club in 1947 so its not hard to work out he's about seventy, looks like he could still push start a Goldy though. |
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we may as well dance |
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