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NicM
Level 2 Member

Victoria


85 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2010 :  9:47:26 PM  Show Profile Send NicM a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
I've access to a 1982 CR480 cheap.

Anything stopping me dropping the suspension down a few inches, donning a set of road race tyres and having a run around with the P5 500's?

Alan Cotterell
In a time out state

Victoria


421 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2010 :  11:38:31 PM  Show Profile Send glen20 a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Chook chasers were used in open road races as far back as the mid-sixties!
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NicM
Level 2 Member

Victoria


85 Posts

Posted - 19 Jul 2010 :  07:42:47 AM  Show Profile Send NicM a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Ok then, project number 3 it is.
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state

Victoria


421 Posts

Posted - 19 Jul 2010 :  09:04:07 AM  Show Profile Send glen20 a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
You could build it in supermotard format - no need to make it look like an historic bike. The eligibility rules don't do anything to promote authenticity.
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Historic
Level 2 Member

New South Wales


46 Posts

Posted - 19 Jul 2010 :  10:45:34 AM  Show Profile Send Historic a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
NicM,
At the risk of saying something silly...Do you have a rule book? If you don't have a printed copy, MA's webite has then on-line.
Whilst it can be of enormous benifit to build a bike based on the expert comments on this and other sites, I've always believed that the rule book is a better place to start.
Just a silly thought,
Historic
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john feakes
Advanced Member

Victoria


791 Posts

Posted - 19 Jul 2010 :  1:31:24 PM  Show Profile Send john feakes a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Maybe I'm odd but I believe that bikes should look like period race bikes.
Chapter 16, AN OVERVIEW.
The express purpose of these rules is to ensure that motorcycles are in a condition which is visually compatible with the period of racing being portrayed.
 

 
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE

A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple.
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NicM
Level 2 Member

Victoria


85 Posts

Posted - 19 Jul 2010 :  5:24:45 PM  Show Profile Send NicM a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
I do have a rule book, have had a good look through it too. I've seen the xt's getting around broadford and pi ok.

If it's too hard I'll just keep it for the ocassional vmx. A 500 single cylinder would be a hoot on the track though.
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NicM
Level 2 Member

Victoria


85 Posts

Posted - 19 Jul 2010 :  5:52:17 PM  Show Profile Send NicM a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
quote:
Originally posted by john feakes

Maybe I'm odd but I believe that bikes should look like period race bikes.
Chapter 16, AN OVERVIEW.
The express purpose of these rules is to ensure that motorcycles are in a condition which is visually compatible with the period of racing being portrayed.



Wouldn't an 82 model cr look like an 82 cr providing a left the cosmetics etc alone?
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john feakes
Advanced Member

Victoria


791 Posts

Posted - 20 Jul 2010 :  11:59:40 AM  Show Profile Send john feakes a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Yes, it will look like an '82 cr but it will also look as if it got lost and ended up on the wrong track.
Cross dressing perhaps?
 

 
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE

A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple.
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state

Victoria


421 Posts

Posted - 20 Jul 2010 :  9:50:30 PM  Show Profile Send glen20 a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
John, I used to think that when the chook chasers used to run in Allpowers C grade in the late sixties. But the simple fact is that we've never held to that bull about the bikes being visually compatible with the era. There are a lot of sixties CB750 based bikes that look exactly like AMA superbikes from the mid-seventies, and I've never heard anyone object. About chook chaser - there was a Yamaha 350 MXer two stroke, that used to race sucessfully in the late sixties in C Grade. Because of the large diameter piston, it always threatened to seize, but it has been done, and it's part of our history. In fact there was a famous law officer who used to be an A Grader , who kicked a young C Grader off a chook chaser after he rode around him on several corners at Winton. - No names, no pack drill!
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john feakes
Advanced Member

Victoria


791 Posts

Posted - 21 Jul 2010 :  08:30:23 AM  Show Profile Send john feakes a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Oh dear, it must be me.
I firmly believe that historic racing should be about racing bikes that look like the bikes that were raced in the period.
I also believe that road race bikes should look like road race bikes.
If we reduce it to merely riding old bikes on a race track we are doomed.
Surely we need to present something that resembles, as closely as possible, what it claims to be? HISTORIC ROAD RACING.
There are classes for old motocross bikes to compete where they belong.
I'll leave now.
 

 
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE

A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple.
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JasonL
Level 3 Member

Victoria


239 Posts

Posted - 21 Jul 2010 :  09:17:59 AM  Show Profile Send JasonL a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 

It might be a stretch for an Mx'er in P5 however they were campaigned a fair bit in P6 if I'm not mistaken, CR500's were campaigned by the likes of Shaun Giles and Garry McCoy. It is an interesting point as to whether a mx'er is truly eligible by the rule book, I haven't delved into it that closely. mx bikes do look a bit odd on the race track especially with regular race bikes. Nonetheless they are quick, Glen 20 may have noticed when watching the pre-thunder modernbears class he is now such a fan of that in one heat a 450 mx'er finished 2nd outright and clocked a minute 35 if I'm not mistaken
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NicM
Level 2 Member

Victoria


85 Posts

Posted - 21 Jul 2010 :  9:51:33 PM  Show Profile Send NicM a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
This was a chook chaser in a past life?


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john feakes
Advanced Member

Victoria


791 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2010 :  09:41:32 AM  Show Profile Send john feakes a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
I can believe that.
With a decent seat and tank it would look so much better.
Nic, do it if you must, but please do it nicely.
I'm sorry, I am an old fart with old fashioned ideas about "historic" race bikes. I just don't like the idea of any old bike being classified as an "historic race bike" merely on its age, there should be more to it than that. It should look right too.
Cheers, John
 

 
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE

A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple.
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JasonL
Level 3 Member

Victoria


239 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2010 :  11:07:28 AM  Show Profile Send JasonL a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 

I guess this is a less debatable example as these were soft trail bikes and very similar to the SR500, a few of which are also campaigned quite successfully around the traps. I can say that this bike in the pic gets round pretty quickly too!
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Bummers
Level 3 Member

Queensland


244 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2010 :  5:53:47 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bummers's Homepage Send Bummers a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
I won an Aussie P5 championship last year on a chook chaser.
Looking to do the same this year. ''
 

 
“Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.” Steve McQueen
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NicM
Level 2 Member

Victoria


85 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2010 :  6:39:33 PM  Show Profile Send NicM a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Looks like I've been talked into it, I'm sure I can make it look good too. See you out there in P5 land sometime next year bummers.
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john feakes
Advanced Member

Victoria


791 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2010 :  08:58:12 AM  Show Profile Send john feakes a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Bernie, if you are talking about the bike I think you are it is so far removed from a chook chaser that a chook wouldn't recognise it.
I hope you do it again.
Cheers, John
 

 
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE

A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple.
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Geoffpgrant
Forum Moderator

South Australia


204 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2010 :  12:20:34 PM  Show Profile Send Geoffpgrant a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
If I can use John's words (above) to describe myself then I think that I too "am an old fart with old fashioned ideas about "historic" race bikes". There are many out there that don't look anything like an 'historic' bike. Without intending to open a different discussion in this forum I reckon that there are too many built to flaunt the rules than there are built to promote excellent historic racing. To bring this comment back to chook chasers, I don't see anything wrong with using a chooky as the basis for a race bike because (again as pointed out above) 'it has been done before' and that in itself is at least a good basis to go forward from. What I wouldn't be happy to see would be if it got a 1260cc 160 hp motor using late model internals and with so many frame modifications that the only original bit is frame number and which overall has retained only a very thin veneer of its historic period...!!! But that is just from an 'old fart'.
Geoff
Sidecar #30
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john
Forum Moderator

Victoria


3110 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2010 :  1:01:18 PM  Show Profile Send john a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Like the Irving Vincent?

It fits the rules!
 

 
John Daley Sidecar #68 Chairman Historic Management Committee Victoria
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter."
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GD66
Senior Member

Western Australia


390 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2010 :  2:37:49 PM  Show Profile Send GD66 a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Are you sure, John ? After much muttering and mumbling from all sorts of chin-scratching experts over a number of years, the Irving Vincent was finally disqualified from competing at the BSFoS last Easter, on a number of grounds including suspension. Yet I've never heard any subsequent discussion about what was found to be out of order on the bike, either from fans or grumblers. As I asked at the time, was it the Ohlins girders that gave the game away ?

After years of discontent about the Irving Vincent being a fabulous build but not in the "Spirit of the Rules", surely we need to know the details of the case so we can prevent such unfortunate incidences occurring in the future. There can be no doubt that the bikes, both solo and sidecar, are an awesome demonstration of how an historic racebike can be built with an open chequebook, but if they've fallen foul of the rules, I think it would assist us to know in what specific areas. It's always sad when these things come to a head in our otherwise generally relaxed rule administration and interpretation.
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john feakes
Advanced Member

Victoria


791 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2010 :  09:41:41 AM  Show Profile Send john feakes a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
GD you've hit the nail on the head in my opinion.
It is very sad that a bike which has been accepted can subsequently be rejected.
It may well be that it should not have been accepted in the first place, but to change the rules in the middle of the game is not the way to go.
It could come down to one new person with a different opinion turning the past on its head.
Equally it could be that the bike in question has been altered from its original specification.
We should be told what actually caused the bike to be ruled out.
 

 
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE

A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple.
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state

Victoria


421 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2010 :  11:26:06 PM  Show Profile Send glen20 a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
The gate was left open and the horse bolted years ago. Personally I wouldn't build a chook chaser and call it 'historic'. But where does all this start and finish? I'd point out that the historic speedway sidecars have rules that require the bikes to be genuine, or faithful replicas of the bikes that raced in the era. Builders of replicas must get written permission from the owner to copy a genuine machine.
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state

Victoria


421 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2010 :  11:37:57 PM  Show Profile Send glen20 a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
There needs to be a class for bikes like the Irving Vincent, and that home made New Zealand superbike (Britten?). The Yanks don't seem to have a problem running them with the Ducatis at Daytona? It's sad that there is no place for such beautiful machines in the Australian scene.
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woolshedjack
Level 1 Member

Victoria


12 Posts

Posted - 27 Jul 2010 :  11:18:03 AM  Show Profile Send woolshedjack a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
I agree that bikes like the Irving Vincent need a class to run in but lets be honest, how many of us could afford to engineer a bike like that. The "Spirit of the Rules" should maybe have a subheading that it should look similar to what the bike looked like in the era it was originally raced. But should it also run internals that are similar to what was raced back then or is it free for all? The problem with specials is a big one. COST. To be competitive against the I.V. would require a massive budget. I am building a couple of cb350's for one for road and one for race use. Does it mean I can use Formula 1 based internals such as pistons valves, rods and cranks, recast a cylinder and head with modern port designs, stick fuel injection on it and whack it all in a frame that looks similar but uses all modern space age materials. It would go like hell but is it in the "Spirit of the Rules"?. I don't think so. Chook chasers are the same. If it ran back in the era it represents and it can be proven then I see no reason why it should not run now. The whole idea as I see it is for the different periods of racing to represent bikes that look and perform something like they used to. Thats what the spectators want to see.
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john feakes
Advanced Member

Victoria


791 Posts

Posted - 27 Jul 2010 :  1:31:18 PM  Show Profile Send john feakes a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
If only.
The rules allow virtually unlimited development provided it is "out of sight".
It is, essentially, silhouette racing.
Check out the Lansdowne rules for the other extreme.
Cheers, John
 

 
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE

A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple.
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woolshedjack
Level 1 Member

Victoria


12 Posts

Posted - 27 Jul 2010 :  5:02:43 PM  Show Profile Send woolshedjack a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Hmmm, wonder where i can get some used Ferrari pistons?. lol
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john
Forum Moderator

Victoria


3110 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2011 :  08:48:23 AM  Show Profile Send john a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
GD66, I dont think the Irving Vincent is ethically ok, but as far as I know from talking to Barry Horner recently, they agreed to some changes and its ok agin.

There is no doubt its a great machine, but my private view is that its in the wrong place. Barry and Ken have a different view and currently they have met all requirements to race historically.
 

 
John Daley Sidecar #68 Chairman Historic Management Committee Victoria
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter."
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Paul F
Level 1 Member

New South Wales


4 Posts

Posted - 02 Jun 2012 :  5:44:01 PM  Show Profile Send Paul F a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
The Topic Question "Would it be Silly" to ride a 82 CR480?
Well I say go for it!
I remember being a motorcross rider in 1980 when a desperate plee from another club holding a race meeting at Winton went out looking for riders who could throw a set of road tyres on and "Make Up Numbers" in the A.B & C classes due to not having enough entries to hold the meeting. YEP!
I turned up with a 1979 CR250, a mate had a PE 250, we ran the tallest gearing we could buy off the shelf along with a couple of road tyres and we turned up. We had a great time and learn't to keep our feet on the pegs whilst cornering.
This meeting was one of the first (if not the first) superbike meeting at Winton.
Classes were mixed due to poor numbers and we even had a ride with the Big Boys during practice.

So if Chook chasers want to make up numbers on the grid, give em ago. They did for me all those years ago.
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link
Level 1 Member


19 Posts

Posted - 19 Aug 2012 :  12:01:59 AM  Show Profile Send link a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
chook chasers are great. I remember watching a yz490 come third in the unlimited superbike race against gsxr's and yzf1000's at broadford. It seemed to really suit the big 2 banger. Link
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Damage
Level 1 Member

Western Australia


1 Posts

Posted - 21 Jul 2016 :  10:57:02 AM  Show Profile Send Damage a Private Message  Reply  Reply with Quote  

 
Hi All,
New member,first post.Back in the early 70's I remember Brian Clarkson doing very well on a Yamaha SC500 mx'er as well as another bloke on a Bultaco 360 El Bandito, unfortunately I can't recall his name. I used to watch them at Oran Park. Also the late Jim Thomas was giving the roadies here in WA a good run on a TS400 Suzuki in the early 80's so chookies have been road racing in the period.

Damage.
 

 
If you're not living on the edge,you're taking up too much space.
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