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steve
Level 2 Member
Queensland
86 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Nov 2003 : 3:40:21 PM
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Hi All
Is it true that the Inca Dates has been put back a week??
it used to be Phillip Island, week later NZ & a week after that Eastern Creek!! so around 1st weekend in Feb I was told that it's all been changed by Bob B just a few nights ago because of a drag meeting in NSW or something like that!! it sure stuffs a few USA racers around who have booked there flights & transport for their bikes & I've allready booked my flights for a week before as from last night!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think I'll change the dates phone call & I'm sure if international riders attending PI & NZ had other plans where does that leave the dates for these riders.
Steve H Queensland
P.S. does anyone want to but airline tickets from Qld to NSW a week before the bloody meeting $160 return 2 people!! FUG!!!
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2003 : 5:39:44 PM
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| steve, can I suggest you check the facts first. I am not in a position to know at this stage but I will follow up if I can in the next day or so. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2003 : 08:20:52 AM
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| Rumour Inca FIM Classic World Championship is no longer a goer. I was informed that the FIm realised the Inca stuff was not a realistic representation of the period is this correct? |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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keith campbell
Level 3 Member
Victoria
248 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2003 : 1:40:38 PM
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| In this weeks issue of AMCN is a half page ad towards the back advertising the meeting including Bob's Phone No.Why not give him a call and find out.In the previous issue of AMCN a titbit article also near back was a 30 word article about INCA has been abandoned.What a pity. |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2003 : 2:44:20 PM
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G.B. said that the national bodies in each contry InCA runs in were supposed to verify their support to the FIM. Several didn't do this, and the series won't be a championship next year (Apparently MA did let FIM know they supported the series.)
A few attempts were made to negotiate a competition round at several circuits in Australa. I don't know if B.B. came up with the asking ($80,000 for 15 riders). However InCA is apparently running at Eastern Creek mid-Feb.
I believe InCA will not be running in NZ. Apparently one of the big players who builds replica 62 model Manxes, isn't too keen on Andy Molnar Manxes making his bikes look stupid.
The Australian attept to get a tour series going would have involved InCA running at the Historic Road Race Championships next year.
Personally I'm pretty disappointed at the lack of interest and apparent duplicity of some of the people involved in this business. We'll have to try a bit harder in the next few years, if we want to get some decent meetings going. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2003 : 5:14:13 PM
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| Alan, I think you are aware that personally I dont think INca is a realistic class, but suggestions that people have colluded to bring something undone are a bit strong, where is the evidence to back it? . |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2003 : 6:42:52 PM
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It's not a matter of collusion to bring something undone. And I certainly wasn't referring to your part, which was early on in the piece, and relatively minor to what went on later. I believe three venues were approached separately and asked to participate, and that the expectation might have been that they would each pay the FIM fee, and expenses for the riders. The arrangement with Eastern Creek was made independently of any other, and the suggestion was never made that other circuits might like to join in and make the thing a series.
I know many of the guys in historic racing aren't that keen on racing against InCA riders, however if you talk to any of the old A Graders you get a different story and a lot of enthusiasm. When you get a chance ask Johnno what he thinks of the opportunity to have a go at them.
What I think about it, is I'd like to get them on Winton with a few of our good guys. I don't think the same opportunity (as in 2004) will come again for a few years. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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keith campbell
Level 3 Member
Victoria
248 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2003 : 7:29:51 PM
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| After the first meeting when all the o/seas riders came to the creek then the INCA was announced and run i can understand it found difficulty.I was personally very interested in the series and wanted to keep up to date with results etc. but each time at the site no results were submitted,no details and only ever came via e.mail in answer to my questions some time well after each event had(should) have been run.I sincerely hope the crowds turn up to E.Creek next year because their can only be so much a bloke (Bob Blythe) can absorb doin his thing. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2003 : 08:18:22 AM
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| Personally I believe there would be more support for Inca if they raced as a silloette class and did not claim to be replicas. That way people could enjoy the spectacal but not get confused with real Classic racers. Another matter, $80,000 would go a long way in Australia to support real motorbikes. But if it was a commercially successful meeting, the $80,000 would be nothing to worry about. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2003 : 7:19:22 PM
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John, when you mention 'real classic racers', are you implying that what we race here has some authenticity?
I suggest the horse has bolted as far as eligibility is concerned. Just simple things like nine stud heads on triumphs which them allow them to be 750cc (in the old days they were only 650s). Five speed boxes on pre 62 bikes when there was probably only one or two five speed Manxes ever raced here in the 50s.
Surely you must agree that the reference to 'real classic racers' is a lot of w*nk. Every bike racing in Australia is modified to the full extent of 'the rules', most bear no resemblance to what was raced back then.
As far as InCA is concerned, I cannot distinguish an Andy Molnar Manx or a George Beale G50 from any other Manx or G50. I don't notice anyone jumping up and down about the Ray Berry/Craig Morris efforts (and they have been spectacular).
Seems to me you guys make and interpret 'the rules' to suit yourselves!!
You and I both know the problem with InCA - they're just too good, and too fast, and they'll make what's racing here look like exactly what it is.
At the first ever historic demo in 1973, Steve Oszko brought out what was arguably the most developed Manx in Australia. Peter Lord from the Velo Owners Club said 'this isn't really in the spirit of things' to him. Steve's reply was 'do you want a hit in the face?'. I think that was reasonable, don't you, considering Steve had raced Ron Toombs and given him a hard time at meetings over about ten years. In fact he was the only Victorian who could get near the Henderson Matchless.
The moral of the story is that if you race you're going to get p*ssed off sometimes.
I suggest InCA should be welcomed here for the interest it will generate for spectators, and some of our top line riders. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2003 : 08:49:26 AM
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Personally, yes I am saying that the Real classics in Australia are closer to Real than the Inca stuff. The issue of fairness is within the rules as originally written, where it is stated that things must be in the spirit of the sport. From what I can see that part has been distorted. I think you reference to the use of violence to make a point is typical of the stories I have heard. I do not agree Inca is a problem because they are fast. They are a problem because they are masquerading as original machines. If they played the game as sillouette class in my mind they would be perfectly welcome. BUT they claim to be representative of something they are patently not. They have different wheel bases, head stem angles, all modern materials and technology. They could not even try and replicate the angle of the carbies on the Nortons to try and make them look kosher. I believe the moral of the story is "Dont try and fool the masses by deception". Race as a sillouette class and nobody will be deceived.
If they think they are so popular, let them put up the $80,000 they want to race and lets see if they are popular enough to pay the bills. Come to think of it, give somebody the $80,ooo and they would run the greatest Festival of Sidecars that would really pull the crowds |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2003 : 9:21:33 PM
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John, Most of the triumphs in Featherbed frames have 26 degree head angles and 100mm trail, just like a seventies Suzuki, and they handle like them. In particular I'm referring to one which won the Australian Historic Road Race Championship a few times and we often see frames advertised with 25 and 26 degree head angles. In fact the bike I referred to had only one genuine Triumph or Norton part on it - the cylinder head.
How about the BSA Bantam with the Yam bits in it, I think it's a five speeder.
The question must be - are we jealous because we can't cheat as effectively? Who's deceiving who?
Anyone who goes to a historic bike meeting and believes he is seeing what was raced back then, is an idiot!
I strongly believe InCA can be beaten, regardless of how many short stroke engines they might build.
Incidently are you calling Ken McIntoshes 62 Manxes, replicas or sihouettes?
One thing you might think about - if one of the big bucks boys gets smart, he might buy one of George Beale's 500cc Benelli fours. That'd be a real problem for everyone. If Benellis aren't eligible for P3 then the replica Gilera fours or the Honda sixes certainly are! I believe someone even built a Guzzi V8. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2003 : 10:46:51 PM
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| Personally Alan I think we are going around in circles. In my view Inca is 100% deception. The Batam Yammy I understand looks like a batam, tell me one Inca that looks like a real Historic Bike. I go to Historic meetings and I believe a lot of what is see is the same as when I raced in the late 60's and I am not an idiot. I realise some things have changed, but not to the extent Inca has pushed the envelope. Let them race as silloettes, not the real things and even I would enjoy them if they pay their way, the same as I do. To date it is my understanding the McIntosh Manxs are sillouettes. As for the Bennellis etc I dont know anything about them. Remember some people race for the simple pleasure of it and others race for other reasons. My attitude is if you want to go fast ride a modern, dont prostitue a great range of bikes. I dont care if Incas can be beaten, why wreck our meetings by trying, let others put up their dollars and run meetings to find if they can. I am sure not everybody will stop racing because they missed the Incas though. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2003 : 7:20:22 PM
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John, I don't know how you would tell a George Beale Seeley G50 from the genuine item, except by weighing it or putting it on the dyno.
I've seen the Ray Berry Manx, and it looks like a Manx to me. I believe Ken McIntosh's Manxes are faithful replicas of 1962 models. In fact he seems to resent InCA, and is the main reason they don't run in NZ. The NZ rules are extremely purist, and always have been. the other type of bike is simply banned.
I don't believe we should go down the purist path, however historic bikes should at least LOOK like historic bikes. I don't care if they're silhouette, faithful replicas or actually the REAL THING. I don't believe in banning the other type of bike, however it should all run in P5 and P6, and should be limited to real racing machines, not converted road bikes unless the model was the basis of a racer. All the bikes in Historic racing should be RACERS. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2003 : 7:22:42 PM
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| Are you going to let the new owner of the Ray Berry Manx run at HMRAV meetings? When someone gets the ex Barry Sheene bike, are you going to let them run at your meetings? Both those bikes are Andy Molnar/Fred Walmsley manufactured. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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matcho mick
Advanced Member
New South Wales
570 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2003 : 9:30:44 PM
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| Jeezas you guys!if they have the dreaded log books they're in,who cares really if they can spend the dollars,they're not in my face!,(as long as we're racing,no problemo),gives the rest of us something to aim for?,ken's manxes are pretty spoton,they have to be!(NZedders are the toughest on aledgibilties),cheers Mick |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2003 : 11:10:51 PM
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| Alan, it is not up to me to decide who races and who does not. But havent we agreed those flash harry's can race its just what you call them that we differ apon? Anyway as you know I would rather sidecars than more solos any day. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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