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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Jan 2004 : 10:19:49 PM
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" What is MA doing about standardising the timing systems at circuits, so we won't have to buy different transponders at each one?? Can you answer me that, Huh, Huh?" This was started by Alan Cotheral. personally I dont speak for MA , but I doubt they will ever speak out about timing. I expect that is more a promoters idea. I reckon we should work to get more sidecars and engine storage frames to meetings than muck about with periferals such as timing gear. There are more important things such as sidecar numbers, numbers of sidecars, how to cater for all the new sidecars we are planning to attract to the track, more events for the greater range of sidecars etc
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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keith campbell
Level 3 Member
Victoria
248 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2004 : 10:26:08 AM
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| yep! |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2004 : 6:22:59 PM
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Surely one of the major things of interest at meetings (both modern and historic) are riders times? Isn't that what racing is about? The other thing is that regularity trials are a great drawcard for older unlicensed competitors in historic car racing. You nominate your lap time and lose a point for lapping a second faster, and lose two points for lapping a second slower. The events usually run for about 20 minutes. It mightn't be all out 'hot shoe' racing, but it gets the guys out onto the circuit, including the ones who can't get a full licence due to their medical.
If you can do the times automatically it gives opportunity to run both these trials and relay races. This could get quite a few of the slower guys interested in coming to more historic motorcycle meetings. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2004 : 10:35:58 PM
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Can we stop going on about Regularity trials in the middle of a timing system discussion.
As Secretary I dont get blokes asking about what timing facilities will be in place. I just get comments about the meeting, nothing else. If riders race in the xpectation of fancy timing at each track then perhaps they have to be prepared to either pay higher fees or pull their own fingers out and get paying spectators to front. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2004 : 06:39:20 AM
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John, You are right in on way, when you say timing systems are a problem for promoters. Trouble is the costs will be passed on whether the systems are standardised or not. If there are different systems at various tracks, and we wish to compete in certain events, we could be required to BUY a transponder. Surely it makes sense to be able to use the unit at all circuits.
My comment doesn't only relate to the regularity trials which might be run at historic meets. It relates to all road racing (car and bike)in Australia, and if MA and CAMS think they shouldn't get involved, they're being as slack as usual. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2004 : 07:26:34 AM
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| I see your point Al, and maybe it would be good if the two organisations did get together, but I reckon man may be on Mars before timing is standardised. I belive we have had a good run with Computime so far so your doomsday predictions may be held off a bit longer. Anyway, have you convinced anybody to get a sidecar on the track yet, anyone will do it does not need to be a winner? |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Former Member
deleted
174 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2004 : 09:05:45 AM
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Ive been asking around about timing systems and I dont believe it would be that hard to standardize all circuits.
The biggest problem is getting permission from the track owners to install the loops under the track.
I use a European brand at work and the distributor over there has told me they are willing to help but get permission is a prob.
So if any track owners are willing to contact me I can start the ball rolling on getting these things installed.
Transponders prices are not that expensive.They get cheaper the more you buy.
Regards
Neill |
Its not what you ride,Its how fast you ride it!!! |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2004 : 7:32:02 PM
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Neill,
I don't know whether loops under the track are necessary. What I was led to believe was that a transmitter with a directional loop aerial sends a signal which is returned by a transponder. Winton already has half the systen, but I believe some of the transponders are inoperative. There needs to be agreement between CAMS, MA and the promoters as to which is the best system. If it is different to Wintons, they may have to just cut their losses, and convert to the new syste. It seems our sport is a bit unprofessional, if we can't time effectively. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Former Member
deleted
174 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2004 : 11:48:22 PM
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Im must admit I chuckle to myself when you see and hear the dramas associated with timing systems.
The system I use has in 2 years of operation has only had 2 out of 20 transponders fail(reason unknown yet) and each transponder has covered about 50-70000 laps of 1/4 mile indoor karting circuit.
Karts cop a lot more abuse than bikes ever do so I can see that a transponder on a bike or car will last nearly forever.(Batteries last 3-4 years)
The transponder unit is no bigger than a matchbox.
The computer software for it can be operated by a 6year old,and it was a simple and cheap investment for our buisness.
Do you know what system Winton uses?
I can feel a letter to MA coming on!!!
Regards
Neill
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Its not what you ride,Its how fast you ride it!!! |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2004 : 11:26:04 PM
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I don't know what Winton uses, however I'll find out next week and let you know. I reckon that if we're paying $290 (+ $10 per meeting) licence fees we should expect our racing efforts to be automatically timed and recorded. I wonder if the MA Grading Committee uses actual lap times when/if it ever upgrades riders?
Come to think of it, when was the last historic rider upgraded? I don't know of any Historic racer who was ever upgraded. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 08:18:45 AM
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| Licence fees have nothing to do with Timing services. When will riders learn its apay as you go system. Riders could help themselves by ppromoting events amongst their mates and others to ensure bucks are available. I suppose licence cost s should also cover spark plugs , fule and tryes also? |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 10:10:04 AM
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When I pay a licence fee, I expect my union to ensure that promoters provide a decent facility for racing. That includes timing systems at their circuits. An individual can time his own laps, however certain events need computer timing. Individual clubs cannot be expected to bring a whole system to each circuit. It needs to be wired in, in some cases.
MOTORCYCLING IS SO UNPROFESSIONAL IN AUSTRALIA!! WHEN ARE WE GOING TO LEARN TO COPY THE YANKS? |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 10:22:17 AM
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| The timing system at Winton is - Dorian Data One |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 3:10:13 PM
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I sought info about the role of MA etc
"When you actually pay a license fee your club and other promoters will provide you with the same information other competitors receive, you will also receive a copy of the GCR's from MA.
Your comments regarding circuits, timing equipment and the way motorcycle sport is run generally shown a lot of misconceptions generally attributed to non riders or those new to the sport.
It is surprising to hear that you don't consider Winton for example to be a "decent facility for racing". In respect of timing equipment Winton uses the Dorian Data One system manufactured by Dorian in Melbourne. This is the recommended system by both MA & CAMS and will be found at circuits across Australia. The purchase and the installation of a timing system is the responsibility of the individual racetrack, not MA, MAV or the promoter. The use of the timing equipment will be found in the schedule of fees for the particular circuit when the track is hired. The supply of transmitters is the responsibility of the track they are a part of the hire agreement. To suggest that all motorcycle competitors who ride at Winton purchase a transmitter ($450~500) is ridiculous. For historic racing at least the Dorian system is not necessarily used but portable equipment is employed that does not require on bike transmitters. It may surprise you to learn that this method is perfectly acceptable to riders. A personal lap timing system may be purchased from companies like Micron, UltraLap, Roll Centre etc for approx $350~600 which includes transmitter & receivers, real time on-bike display and data logging. Such a system can be used anytime, not so for systems like Dorian."
ALSO, ALAN WHICH PART OF THE USA WILL WE COPY, THE ORAL SEX WITH SECRETARIES, THE POVERTY, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN EAST COAST AND WEST COAST MOTORCYCLE RACING RULES, THE CORRUPTION CAUSED BY LARGE SUMS OF MONEY BEING AT STAKE. WHY DO WE NEED TO COPY ANYBODY, WE HAVE BUILT SPECIALS FOR YEARS, WE HAVE A FAIRLY HEALTHY SPORT IN NEED OF GROWTH, WHAT COULD WE POSSIBLY LEARN FROM THE YANKS?
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 8:50:23 PM
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John, How many circuits have functioning timing systems which are capable of timing ALL riders in an event, automatically and present a report in a reasonable format at the end? I'm talking about a document that can be transferred to the internet, probably in PDF format.
I'd be really surprised if there is a uniform system at more than a couple of circuits. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 8:52:44 PM
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| Incidently the reason Bob Blythe uses AHRMA rules for his events is that they are the most refined in the world to stop 'cheating'. So perhaps we CAN learn something from the Yanks, apart from how to get stains on dresses! |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2004 : 10:55:11 AM
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| I dont know anything about timing systems at tracks. Perhaps somebody could study this. The AMRMA rules would be of interest where can I find them please? |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Allan
Site Moderator
National
599 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2004 : 9:37:29 PM
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 Maybe as a support program for the next race meeting we could arrange a  boxing match between John and Alan  |
Allan Greening |
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matcho mick
Advanced Member
New South Wales
570 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2004 : 10:38:03 PM
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i would like to see that |
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keith campbell
Level 3 Member
Victoria
248 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2004 : 10:28:52 AM
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John do a search and put in A.H.R.M.A. and see what they've got to offer.
Big series across whole country, sponsors galore,track info,accomm info etc as a whole very smart site.
All we need here in Oz are a pool of 300 and something million people and we should be able to get lots more enthusiastic punters around the fence!!! |
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David
Site Administrator
Australia
999 Posts |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2004 : 5:40:21 PM
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We don't need 300 million people to be sucessful. All we need is a crowd the size that turns up to one of the many AFL games during the winter. When Murray Nankervis ran the debacle at Laverton, a good sized crowd turned up. Admittedly Ago, Paoulo Pileri, and Blakey and the boys were all there with brand new RG500s. That's a formula for success in anyone's language.
I suggest we need to think a bit laterally, and come up with something that pulls the crowd.
(At Laverton Murray didn't organise collection of the money very well. Every man and his dog got in for free. But it did show one thing - WHAT COULD BE!!) |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2004 : 6:21:29 PM
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| Timing Fellas thats what we were talking about. How are we going to do a study, if needed. As I said earlier I am not being contacted about timing sytstems. But riders need to know if they want these systems there is a cost, higher fees. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2004 : 03:08:16 AM
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John, In an earlier post I mentioned the 'regularity trials' that the car guys run. They are very popular because they give a cheap opportunity to get four 20 minute sessions of track time, over an historic weekend. The problem with running them is that to win you have to be very consistent - means accurately timing the event, which can have 40 entrants. If you try this event you will find it's easier to be consistent, if you are 'on the pace'.
The trouble with introducing this to motorcycle racing, is that noone has ever done the event at a bike meeting previously. If we wanted to hold this event, we would have trouble timing it, and how do we know we want to do it until we try it? |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Former Member
deleted
![]()
10 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2004 : 1:46:04 PM
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Regularity trials? "Older" classic motorcycle riders?
Makes me think of something completely different 
Eat more bran guys  |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2004 : 3:11:51 PM
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| Are you going to keep us guessing Rev? |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Former Member
deleted
174 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2004 : 9:57:54 PM
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What are peoples thoughts on having one standardised system for all circuits.
Would the cost of transponders start making people whinge about how dear they are etc etc.
Some timing companies are willing to foot the cost of the loop providing they can sell enough transponders to justify the cost.
The joy of owning your own transponder is that you can fix the units to your bikes and take it to any track and get your lap times on the spot.
Most of MX and road racing in Europe and America use standardised systems and even karting centres use the same systems.
Regards
Neill
Here is one website to look at regarding timing systems
www.amb-it.com
The 260 is a top system to consider.
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Its not what you ride,Its how fast you ride it!!! |
Edited by - n/a on 10 Feb 2004 10:12:23 PM |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2004 : 10:31:29 AM
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Sounds good to me Neill. What we need is for MA to get together with CAMS and with circuit owners and standardise the system. You obviously know something about timing systems, your advice is needed!
I notice the Poms seem to have the same problem with transponders (according to the last Classic Racer). |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Former Member
deleted
174 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2004 : 11:21:56 PM
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Im willing to get involved to help this sport anyway I can.
If the ball starts rolling with MA,Cams and the relevant circuits could someone keep me informed as I want to help out.
I have all the info for AMB Timing at my fingertips.
Regards
Neill
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Its not what you ride,Its how fast you ride it!!! |
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